D&D 5E "Fixing" 5e's Least Well Performing Classes

[TwoSix]

I don't know about general agreement. A 9th level warlock that gets 2 short rests has up to 6 5th level spells a day when a wizard has 2.

They're different, but warlock Spell Point conversions is close to Wizards.

So, hypothetically, a warlock with normal casting would be balanced?

 

[Xeviat]

So, hypothetically, a warlock with normal casting would be balanced?

Maybe. It might be weaker but more diverse. It might be more powerful. EB plus hex is better than a lot of spells, so a bunch of low level slots could make the warlock more happy to use little spells like shield and such.

I've been looking at making everyone like the warlock. When comparing warlock to cleric, warlock has their invocations and pact boon while cleric has channel divinity and their get out of jail free card. It's hard to compare them, but they might be balanced.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I had plenty of warlocks, some monks and some sorcerers in my games. Not one of them was underperforming.

 

[Xeviat]

I had plenty of warlocks, some monks and some sorcerers in my games. Not one of them was underperforming.

Lots of other people feel the opposite. Likely, small changes to make people like the classes more won't make you like them less.

 

[Asisreo]

Lots of other people feel the opposite. Likely, small changes to make people like the classes more won't make you like them less.

I've had a wizard and cleric underperforming in my games. Essentially, they were the first to go down since when battles occured, hardly anybody knows what to expect.

They typically lose initiative, get focused, go down, and the rest of the team has to find a way to keep them from straight dying.

I personally like clerics, too. But I can recognize effectiveness is usually determined by the player, not the character.

 

[Xeviat]

I've had a wizard and cleric underperforming in my games. Essentially, they were the first to go down since when battles occured, hardly anybody knows what to expect.

They typically lose initiative, get focused, go down, and the rest of the team has to find a way to keep them from straight dying.

I personally like clerics, too. But I can recognize effectiveness is usually determined by the player, not the character.

That's true. I venture to guess, though, that the people not liking the classes in question have valid experiences too, and seem skilled in the game.

I have a rogue in my current game that isn't doing too hot, but it's because he's overly cautious. I have a warlock who is rocking because the only spells she casts are hex and the occasional Blink if the fight seems tough. But, I like to feel like I've gained a good eye for when a class feels lackluster (like the ranger compared to the paladin).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Out of curiosity, there's a general agreement that swapping Pact Magic casting for normal full casting on a Warlock would be overpowered, right?

I was being sarcastic - if you think warlocks are dull, don't play a warlock.

IMO there is no such thing as a dull character, dullness is a consequence of poor roleplaying.

But whatever, dull is not the same as underpowered, and therefore cannot be fixed with MOR POWAH.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I was being sarcastic - if you think warlocks are dull, don't play a warlock.

IMO there is no such thing as a dull character, dullness is a consequence of poor roleplaying.
But whatever, dull is not the same as underpowered, and therefore cannot be fixed with MOR POWAH.

cool. None of that is really relevant to the topic of the thread, though. This isn’t one of the threads with “suck” in the title. No one is claiming that any given class is dull, or underpowered, or anything of the sort.
If you experience no dissatisfaction with any class, this thread may not be relevant to your interests.

I had plenty of warlocks, some monks and some sorcerers in my games. Not one of them was underperforming.

Okay.

 

[ZeshinX]

While I enjoy the Sorcerer and Warlock classes for what they are, I've sometimes wondered if they'd both be better off smooshed together into a single class.

Pacts with planar or other-worldly powers seem....well, remarkably inconsequential as implemented for the Warlock. I mean, honestly, something like that seems like it would be rather significant (especially the idea of, say, a devil offering some 0-level nobody a chance for magic powers...that one strikes me as truly strange....not implausible entirely...just a little odd). Pacts like that suggest an entire subsystem that any class could acquire.

The Sorcerer's entire schtick is natural ability to cast spells (manipulate the Weave or whatever your preferred fluffy flavour) instead of having to learn them through study, as the Wizard. Metamagic seems....rather an odd thing to be exclusive to Sorcerers. I mean sure, they need more than just innate ability to wave their hands about, speak a few arcane words and poof! a spell happens. Kinda the same as Warlocks, they just know even fewer than Sorcerers and can cast them less frequently before needing a breather.

I dunno...they just feel like they'd work well if they were put together. Or not. Just mental diarrhea happening here perhaps.

 

[Pauln6]

While I enjoy the Sorcerer and Warlock classes for what they are, I've sometimes wondered if they'd both be better off smooshed together into a single class.

Pacts with planar or other-worldly powers seem....well, remarkably inconsequential as implemented for the Warlock. I mean, honestly, something like that seems like it would be rather significant (especially the idea of, say, a devil offering some 0-level nobody a chance for magic powers...that one strikes me as truly strange....not implausible entirely...just a little odd). Pacts like that suggest an entire subsystem that any class could acquire.

The Sorcerer's entire schtick is natural ability to cast spells (manipulate the Weave or whatever your preferred fluffy flavour) instead of having to learn them through study, as the Wizard. Metamagic seems....rather an odd thing to be exclusive to Sorcerers. I mean sure, they need more than just innate ability to wave their hands about, speak a few arcane words and poof! a spell happens. Kinda the same as Warlocks, they just know even fewer than Sorcerers and can cast them less frequently before needing a breather.

I dunno...they just feel like they'd work well if they were put together. Or not. Just mental diarrhea happening here perhaps.

Thematically they are very different but mechanically you could swap the chassis without feeling you were being cheated out of your concept. They would probably benefit from slight cross pollination, maybe Warlocks getting a free invocation to access a couple of extra thematic spells and the Sorcerer getting invocation type abilities based on bloodlines that can be activated with spell points.