D&D 5E "Fixing" assassinate.

[Fenris-77]

Yeah, fair enough. They don't suck, they're just too situationally (campaign?) dependent. And to have two subclass abilities like that back to back? If you're in a campaign where there isn't a lot of urban roleplaying and intrigue, your subclass might literally give you no bonus from 3 to 17.

That's why a lot of Assassin builds only have three levels in rogue. The combat Assassin is better built as mostly fighter or Ranger anyway. Or at least F/R 5/Rogue 3 as a base. You want that extra attack and the other combat buffs more than the extra sneak attack dice. I like both builds. I've never had a chance to play straight assassin in a campaign that it really works in, which is a shame. I love urban intrigue games.

 

[Horwath]

That's why a lot of Assassin builds only have three levels in rogue. The combat Assassin is better built as mostly fighter or Ranger anyway. Or at least F/R 5/Rogue 3 as a base. You want that extra attack and the other combat buffs more than the extra sneak attack dice. I like both builds. I've never had a chance to play straight assassin in a campaign that it really works in, which is a shame. I love urban intrigue games.

I played it in our 1st 5e campaign. till 9th level

That is why I am speaking of it this much.

as pure rogue you do not have that great damage.

Even if you manage to get sneak attack condition every round you might see yourself lagging behind the barbarian with GWM, haha

Party was, Rogue-Assassin(me), Barbarian-Totem, Vengeance Paladin and Warlock.

was a high competition for damage

 

[Guest 6801328]

I played it in our 1st 5e campaign. till 9th level

That is why I am speaking of it this much.

as pure rogue you do not have that great damage.

Even if you manage to get sneak attack condition every round you might see yourself lagging behind the barbarian with GWM, haha

Party was, Rogue-Assassin(me), Barbarian-Totem, Vengeance Paladin and Warlock.

was a high competition for damage

Well, it sounds like the DM who ran that campaign wasn't using surprise/initiative rules correctly, so there's that. Also, a Thief would have done even less damage (getting effectively no combat bonus), so if "competition for damage" is your concern, the problem isn't in the subclass.

 

[Horwath]

Well, it sounds like the DM who ran that campaign wasn't using surprise/initiative rules correctly, so there's that. Also, a Thief would have done even less damage (getting effectively no combat bonus), so if "competition for damage" is your concern, the problem isn't in the subclass.

As I mentioned, we went with 3.5 rules for surprise as it was better suited for use.
More punishing for those that are surprised.

Yeah, this has no direct combat bonuses, except lvl17 one.

But their "roleplay" bonues are really reliable and can be utilized in combat, while assassins 9th and 13th level are really bad.

 

[Guest 6801328]

As I mentioned, we went with 3.5 rules for surprise as it was better suited for use.
More punishing for those that are surprised.

Ok, but it sounds like it also made it harder for the Assassin to use Assassinate. So wouldn't your impressions of the ability be colored?

 

[FrogReaver]

I played it in our 1st 5e campaign. till 9th level

That is why I am speaking of it this much.

as pure rogue you do not have that great damage.

Even if you manage to get sneak attack condition every round you might see yourself lagging behind the barbarian with GWM, haha

Party was, Rogue-Assassin(me), Barbarian-Totem, Vengeance Paladin and Warlock.

was a high competition for damage

Level 3 @ 60% chance to hit
Rogue with Rapier and freehand = 8.7 DPR
Rogue dual wield short sword = 11.88 DPR
Barbarian no rage or reckless with Greatsword = 6 DPR
Barbarian with reckless attack and rage and Greatsword = 10.08
Barbarian with reckless attack and rage and Greatsword and -5/+10 = 12.705

Level 5 @ 60% chance to hit
Rogue with Rapier and freehand = 11.4 DPR
Rogue dual wield short sword = 15.42 DPR
Barbarian with no rage or reckless and Greatsword = 15.6 DPR
Barbarian with reckless attack and rage and Greatsword = 21.84
Barbarian with reckless attack and rage and Greatsword and -5/+10 = 26.565

Rage and feats are the only thing really keeping the barbarians damage above the rogues and even then it's only significant in tier 2.. Which is fine IMO. Rogues get skills and expertise to make up for that difference.