"Fixing" d20 Modern - The Definitive Thread

Ghost2020 · Mar 15, 2011

I liked the Wealth system, because too often modern and far future games can turn into "Check Book the RPG". I don't want to manage my PCs accounts. I don't. That's boring. If they need to buy/get equipment, it's an in game thing or we make some rolls and we're done with it.

garrowolf · Mar 16, 2011

@ CharilesRyan I appreciate that you didn't take offense.

What other systems did you work on?

CharlesRyan · Mar 16, 2011

Thanks for asking! I don't want to hijack the thread (though it looks like I might be too late), so I'll just point you here: Charles a Whosit, Now? The Fascinating World of Charles Ryan

Mustrum_Ridcully · Mar 16, 2011

Wow, that's a nice thread necromancy here...

I see there is still some enthusiasm left for a d20 Modern. Just reading the thread makes me want to tinker again.

Janx · Mar 16, 2011

Interesting thread. I am unencumbered by fact, having only skimmed the d20 modern SRD when it came out a long time ago.

I thought the classes by StatName to be stupid. Either make real classes (soldier, doctor, etc), or switch to a skills based system.

If I was making a skills based system, I'd assume everybody got the same SP (no classes).

I'd turn a bunch of stuff into skills, like AC, a skill for each category of weapon (to represent BAB), even the saving throws would be skills.

Assuming we used the D&D thief as an example of a skills based PC, I reckon we'd need to use 10 or so, rather than 8 as the baseline. Thus, if you got 10 + int (*4 for 1st level) skills, you'd spend them on:

AC (maybe call it Avoidance)
HP (5 per rank?)
Pistols
Fortitude
Reflex
Willpower
plus other skills

I'd consider using the figher feat progression (or maybe the next slowest) for feats.

Presumably, a feat for each weapon category, with some weapons having prerequisites (assault rifles needing a more basic gun feat).

Relying on skills and feats to enable all the stuff would require careful design of the skill list (consolidation of some skills, breaking apart of others, to encourage support the probability that a PC has all skills at max ranks, and to make sure the basic fight or cast spells skills are available.

to design class-less with this idea, I'd test compare a PC to a D&D equivalent. You should be able to build a comparable fighter, or a comparable mage. Somebody who dips into magic, combat, and rogue skills should not be too powerful, nor suck.

Combat should be cinematic as somebody else suggested. Real guns are real lethal. Makes for frequent TPKs. Therefore, like movies demonstrate, bad guys need to shoot like Storm Troopers, they miss a lot.

I intepret this to mean HP should be lower overall, and AC should be higher. Thus, when a hit is scored, it's more likely to be "lethal"

I'm not saying this is an exact solution, just a design I'd consider. And it may not even cover the larger concerns voiced here

garrowolf · Mar 17, 2011

[MENTION=8835]Janx[/MENTION] That sounds alot like my Nexus d20 game system. Check it out!

Nadaka · Mar 17, 2011

I very much prefer the basic classes.

Not every modern game is about mercenaries, or super spies. So a class for every role would require a huge number of classes. Even then, a lot of modern characters do not fit roles. That was my biggest problem with spycraft, that every class was so strictly defined and rigidly placed within the spy genre.

And I don't like the idea of a pure skill based system either, classes just make the game and character creation easier.

Belen · Mar 17, 2011

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
There have been a lot of threads on d20 Modern in the past.
A lot of people have ideas and issues with the game system, but like other aspects, and I think there have been quite a few threads about it already..

I am currently playing in a d20 Modern online campaign set in a post-apocalyptic world. (If you're interested and understand German, the gamemaster has his own blog: TheClone | Das herzliche Rollenspielblog)

I like where the campaign is going, but nobody seems quite content with the game system itself. A lot of combats we had were basically exchanges of bullets with little more tactics and variety than moving between covers, and a lot of (bad) luck involved to actually come to an end.

So, last weekend we were discussing alternatives, like Savage Worlds or Star Wars Saga. Another option was house-ruling d20 Modern. Well, I got a little carried away with it this weekend and ended up with a lot of material, which I am talking a little about in my own blog
(Note: I have talked about "4Eiizing" d20 Modern before. This is, mostly, not that take.)

But before getting carried away even further - what do you people think are d20 Modern biggest issues? Where does it need improvement?

My take currently focuses mostly on a few things:

- Talents are bland and boring.
- Action Points are underused.
- Combat Options are lacking or are very feat-intensive.

Other things I observed:
- Reputation seems to be mostly ignored.
- Wealth is often considered a good idea implemented badly.

So, what's your take? What would you add to the list? How would you expect it to change? How do you feel do (d20?) alternatives (Modern 20, True 20, Spycraft) do these things better - and where do they fail?