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fixing Healing Outside Combat

I think that next time I DM 4E, I'll just rule that if you spend two surges during a short rest you're fully healed. (this represents the healer PC's using their encounter healing powers on the most wounded)

Spend one surge, heal one surge worth; spend two, you're healed.

This does have the net effect of distributing the healing surges around the party, but *shrug*, in our games so far Extended Rests have been forced by being out of death saves & daily powers, not by being out of surges...
 

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Allowing healers to use their healing powers freely during a short rest was my first house rule (in 4E). I haven't had any problems with it thus far. The "worst" thing it does is lengthen the adventuring day a little, which I usually find to be a good thing and haven't thus far found to be game breaking in the least.
 

The way I do it is to simply give the players a fixed bonus on every healing surge they spent while in a short rest. And that fixed bonus is the average of an 1d6 (3) plus the healer's wisdom modifier. That's easy to handle and doesn't cause any overhead IMHO.

If you really hate having to keep track of how many short rests were taken, then I would just say to follow the OP's rule and let them use their healing powers outside of combat as many times as needed. To speed it up you can either have all the players roll the dice themselves, rather than having the healing roll like 20 d6's at higher levels, or use an "average" value of 3.

The new feat that maximizes Healing Word also cuts down on administration since it does the same thing. A level 1 Cleric with 18 WIS (+4) would maximize the single d6 for a total of +10 to surge value. This makes it easy to just say "Spend your healing surges to heal up, and add +10 to each surge".
It's probably worthwhile to add that my second rule is exactly that: averaging the bonus hit points.

Only "add your level in bonus hp" is even easier to remember and apply, in my opinion... :)

(You don't need to remember if it's a warlord or bard healing you, the number of d6's to roll, etc etc - you simply get +12 hp if you are level 12)

Allows each player to apply his surges quickly without having to ask questions to the other players. Or do any real math at all.
 

I'm intrigued by this idea but I'm curious how you would suggest handling parties with multiple healer types (e.g., a Cleric and a Warlord). Let each and every healer add their bonus to the surges? Rule they don't stack? Perhaps some sort of "aid another" type bonus for each additional leader with a healing class feature?
As the other posters have said; this isn't a problem. Each individual surge can only be boosted by one healer.

Simply use the value that's the highest. Or make it "your level" to make it even easier...
 

First off, it wasn't the PHB 2 that allowed healing outside of combat, it was the PHB 1. It's been there since the beginning.
Certainly.

The reason I'm bringing up the subject now is how the PHB2 has convinced me the D&D designers have finally given up on the idea of "singular" (or uncountable) short rests. Thus I needed to do it myself! :)

The new feat that maximizes Healing Word also cuts down on administration since it does the same thing. A level 1 Cleric with 18 WIS (+4) would maximize the single d6 for a total of +10 to surge value. This makes it easy to just say "Spend your healing surges to heal up, and add +10 to each surge".
I can't agree - from my POV that feat does not address the biggest problem with the current implementation of the short rest. While it cuts back on the admin needed to calculate hit points, it still assumes you're taking more than one short rest.

Besides, as a feat, it will only help the individual that takes it. I'd far prefer the game to save everybody from the admin. Without that taking up a feat. (Just lose the maximizing part of it)
 

I can't agree - from my POV that feat does not address the biggest problem with the current implementation of the short rest. While it cuts back on the admin needed to calculate hit points, it still assumes you're taking more than one short rest.

Besides, as a feat, it will only help the individual that takes it. I'd far prefer the game to save everybody from the admin. Without that taking up a feat. (Just lose the maximizing part of it)

I guess part of the thing I'm trying to understand too is why you care? I mean, in our group we don't really worry about "Did we take 2 short rests, or 3?". 90% of the time it's really not going to matter much, and the 10% of the time it is going to matter we should probably know about it ahead of time anyway. So I would just say, don't bother tracking the short rests (within reason, there's not really a lot of reason to ever take 10 in a row) unless there's a specific reason to do so at the moment.

As for it being a feat cost, I guess I don't see why that's an issue either. Toughness and Durability are feats, and only affect those who take them. Those feats allow PC's to last longer by having more HP/Surges. This feat allows the Cleric to maximize their healing to restore more HP and save surges when healing between encounters. It's not really any different.

The only time there should be an issue is when you have multiple healers. But guess what? That would be an issue anyway, regardless of the feat, because different classes heal with different abilities and differing effectiveness. Clerics usually heal the best, with everyone else being slightly behind them, and then the Shaman is sort of this strange outlier that's an entirely different issue.

So even if you do use an average for the die rolls, it still matters who healed who. So, there's always going to be some administration going on, unless you standardize healing across all classes, which makes them all to similar to me and ruins some of the advantages of one type over the others. Particularly for the Cleric since their whole schtick is essentially "I heal better than all the other Leaders".
 

This saddens me, because there is a much more elegant solution that allows us to stick to the simple beauty of the uncountable short rest.

If you have any healer in your group, simply assume every healing surge used benefits fully from its bonus. No actual powers are expended.
That's what I do outside of combat. There isn't much point in not doing it, since the only "cost" of doing things the official way is taking a slightly longer short rest than normal, ie, taking two or three short rests in a row. I never track exact minutes anyways, so that's what I get with either system, and simply assuming that the clerical healing is used saves the trouble of saying that you're taking multiple short rests.

Honestly, its what I do with every encounter power used outside of an encounter. I figure you take "some time" to use it as much as you need, within reason.
 

That's what I do outside of combat. There isn't much point in not doing it, since the only "cost" of doing things the official way is taking a slightly longer short rest than normal, ie, taking two or three short rests in a row. I never track exact minutes anyways, so that's what I get with either system, and simply assuming that the clerical healing is used saves the trouble of saying that you're taking multiple short rests.

Honestly, its what I do with every encounter power used outside of an encounter. I figure you take "some time" to use it as much as you need, within reason.
And to answer Doctor Proctor's question, this is why.

I like short rests to be a literary convention. I like that they take an undetermined amount of time. I like how they break off the otherwise total focus on counting rounds, powers and such. And in that light, it doesn't make any sense to have "two short rests".

A short rest in itself just enough time for the defenders (in the next room, say) to prepare themselves, don their armor, and take their positions. It is a beautiful simplification. The point being: don't worry about exactly how long your rest takes and how many rounds you need to heal up, because the timer is off, and your enemies will be ready for you regardless.

To me, the first thing about having a second short rest would be like saying right when a race is about to begin, everyone ready in their starting blocks, the referee raising the start pistol... "okay, just give me a minute, I'm not really done after all".

My other and more central concern is this:

If we agree taking two short rests does not change anything, then we agree there are no price attached to doing so. And D&D is about choices having costs. Okay, so what about if the second short rest does have a price (in how the defenders get reinforcements, prepare better fortifications etc)?

But this would then negate the main point of the short rest as a convention. No longer would it be true that a short rest is what separates encounters, and that a short rest is just enough time for the defenders...

...because now we introduce the new concept of the "double short rest" where the defenders get to prepare themselves more.

And this to me is a sad path to go down, because what I see at the end of it is the return of the minute-by-minute obsession.

Taking more than *a* short rest to me says you haven't fully grasped and embraced the notion of the short rest as the definition of "just enough time". It says to me you're really clinging to the notion that time passes minute by minute, and that "surely" ten minutes is better than five.

But the brilliance of the short rest idea to me was the idea to break off from minutes and seconds and instead say it's enough to heal you up but also enough for the defenders to get into the positions that the adventure designer have chosen.

Thus creating the most fun encounter, instead of getting bogged down in realism issues like "how did that guard have time to wake up, get his weapon, and take up position in the ballista tower?"

If you take a short rest, and the game is clearly geared towards you doing so, you accept the "social contract" where "if you get to heal, the enemy gets to prepare" - but with the understanding this preparation adds fun to the game by making the opposition 'just right' rather than the game having to worry about guards without their armor and shields etc. And in the end, this goes for player characters too: in essence, the game getting rid of the nightly ambushes where people are taken unawares, which in a gear-based game like D&D, is a disaster.

All good, in my view.

Again, being able and encouraged to sometimes take two short rests means to think in terms of several layers of enemy preparation. (Because otherwise the extra short rests are effectively free) This to me is a (partial) surrender of the entire idea with short rests. Just as round-by-round healing would be a complete surrender, where "every round counts" and the DM is expected to run enemy preparations behind the scenes, also round by round; so that if the party heals up in 8 rounds instead of 11, that could mean some guards haven't exited their barracks yet (or whatever).

My solution is something I would have liked the designers to have the guts to add in as a standard rule because I believe it is better for the game for everybody. :)

My main objection is that currently the designers are selling a half-baked solution that isn't pure and does nottake the consequences of its own logic.

Hope this answers the question, DP, and that you didn't fall asleep when you read it...
 
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CappnZapp- I don't think that short rests are supposed to be "paid for" with the cost of enemies regrouping in the next room. I think that's a plot concern entirely unrelated to the game's balance. After all, plenty of short rests occur in contexts where there is no "next room" in which enemies can regroup.

I think you're getting way too analytical about something extremely unimportant.
 

The last 4th Ed adventure I ran did not have a single healer type character in the party, so I just houseruled using the Heal skill and a DC 15...anything over 15 added to the amount of healing a surge provided...so if they rolled a 23 they received an additional 8 points on top of their surge value. A check could be made with every healing surge taken, and I allowed other characters to aid (within reason). The characters were happy, it did not de-rail the game and it did not affect the 5 minute short rest. The only contolling factor was that a healing kit could only be used so many times before it had to be replenished.

If we were still using 4th Ed I would continue in that trend, even if healers were in the party.
 

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