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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9207882" data-attributes="member: 93670">I agree with all of this but think there is a bigger problem with fixing it than just getting the numbers right for each class at each level.  If you look back at 3.x it varies from class to class but the rest rules were loaded with all kinds of weasel clauses to a fairly tight bit of RAW that may as well have been a flavor &fluff laden "ask your gm" on both 'can we rest?" as well as "did we finish?" With the RAW relying on the gm's judgement being reasonable for a fun session given the adventure & party needs. Things like needing a specific time of day, needing a "good" night's sleep, having to spend peaceful time in prayer/study... Etc.. I might be off on some of the wording on those but they all boil down to asking the gm and the gm having a significant say just in if they agree about a rest being reasonable or not. The trend in 5e rest mechanics goes the other way in an almost kneejerk overreaction to someone's past bad game experience that does away with all those weasel words allowing the GM to casually block or create exceptions in the RAW rest rules in favor of crafting rules that are more "we are taking a test and don't care what you say, stop wasting our time by pretending the gm  has a say in MY rest ".  That's a very different mindset for rules to be catering towards.  Unfortunately it's almost a mindset where the gm is assumed to always be .an unreasonable actor who wants to crush their players (ie new and inexperienced killer gm type).  Such an unreasonable actor is probably incapable of being assumed to .ake reasonable choices about those earlier weasel clauses on something important like resting so you wind up with rules that try to restrict that killer gm as much as possible. That effort in shifting control over rest and recovery to such an extreme degree doesn't seem like a thing wotc is willing to dial back at all as long as some newer less experienced gm could possibly say no to an unreasonable way without really understanding their mistake at the time.Adventure design was never really a meaningful hurdle for resting when needed in actual play because the GM could always listen to their players expressing how much the group really needs a rest and simply provide/point out stored magic items or choose to allow full of partial resting to happen even though everyone at the table knows that getting a good night's sleep here seems very far from passing the sniff test of plausibility. What few changes they made to the UA rules glossary changes rest rules have trended towards baked in automated success conditions and hurdles that are completely without value if the gm is not willing to declare the monsters left or doom clocks runs out or similar to simply ending the session right there if not ready to unroll a second third or fourth prepared adventure of the season.</blockquote>

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