D&D (2024) Fixing short rest novaloops is important... using the moon druid

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Once again wotc has provided us with a set of UA rest & recovery rules that provide explosive recovery resting & nearly guaranteed success barring fiat or the players choosing to give up their attempts. Also we once again we see a monk that regains all Ki/Discipline on long or short rests. The moon druid

In this most recent packet provides a great example of why that is terrible for the game in the moon druid
.

LEVEL 10: MOONLIGHT STEP
You magically transport yourself, reappearing
amid a burst of moonlight. As a Bonus Action,
you teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied
space you can see, and you have Advantage on
the next attack roll you make before the end of
this turn.
You can use this feature a number of times
equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of
once), and you regain all expended uses when
you finish a Long Rest.
You can also regain uses
by expending a spell slot of level 2 or higher for
each use you want to restore (no action
required).
Wotc keeps talking about how they want every class to be more interested in taking short rests but have done precious little to actually make good on that goal while doing nothing about excess from the other end where the last warlock and this most recent monk monk still have every reason to ignore their no cost at eills im favor of pushing hard for a short rest every fight or two.

That recovery choice being long rest only rather than long or short rest is obviously because balance is important & having it short rest recovering would be over the top in various ways. Monk design needs to accept that same reality by starting to accept that monk (and warlock) recovery needs to change because it's impossible to make every other class want to stop for a short rest every fight or two just because they chose to use the more powerful discipline burning option every time they could have used one of their abilities.
 
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mellored

Legend
Number of Uses.You can use Wild Shape twice. You regain one expended use when you finish a Short Rest, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest.

There are also more things to spend wild shape on. Like a familiar. Or Wrath of the Sea.


So on a short rest you get...

Barbarians: 1 rage
Bard: all inspiration dice
Clerics: 1 channel Divinity
Druids: 1 wild shape
Fighter: 1-2 action surge, 1 second wind
Monk: all DP
Paladin: 1 channel Divinity
Ranger: ... decrease exhaustion (level 10)
Rogue: ... ... stroke of luck (level 20)
Sorcerer: 1-4 Sorcery points (if you are out. I expect tweaks)
Warlock: spell slots
Wizard: arcane recovery (once) andseveral sub classes stuff.


So the majority of classes want a short rest. Ranger and Rogue being the exceptions.

Let ranges cast hunters mark, or some subclass spell, for free 1/short rest.

No idea what short rest thing Rogues can do.
 
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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Oh! @mellored fighters also recover one use of second wind on a short rest.
There is a very big difference between recovering one charge of one ability & recovering the entire pool of all abilities. At very low levels it might be a similar impact, but discipline scales at +1 point per level, They added an ability that recovers one point when rolling initiative & removed the cost from some abilities but did nothing about the continued recovery of -ALL- points even after the pool size grows significantly. That results in a huge incentive to constantly force short rests every fight or two & completely ignore the free component of but spend ki for improved version abilities.

The game is either ADEU or it's not, having some classes be ADEU & others be attrition based while just pretending to kinda sorta but not really be ADEU creates problems that shouldn't be created by core classes
 

Gadget

Adventurer
I understand the complaint, and I think the designers could do a bit more to make sure every class wants short rests a bit more. But I also don't want a return to the days of a dedicated heal bot being all but required for remotely optimal play either, which is what would happen if you dialed down the rest and recovery of the current system too much.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
There is a very big difference between recovering one charge of one ability & recovering the entire pool of all abilities. At very low levels it might be a similar impact, but discipline scales at +1 point per level, They added an ability that recovers one point when rolling initiative & removed the cost from some abilities but did nothing about the continued recovery of -ALL- points even after the pool size grows significantly. That results in a huge incentive to constantly force short rests every fight or two & completely ignore the free component of but spend ki for improved version abilities.

The game is either ADEU or it's not, having some classes be ADEU & others be attrition based while just pretending to kinda sorta but not really be ADEU creates problems that shouldn't be created by core classes
I don’t agree that it’s a problem. Everyone (except the rogue, I guess) benefits from a short rest. Some classes benefit more from a short rest than others. Just as everyone benefits from a long rest, and some classes benefit more from a long rest than others. This is not only fine, it’s good, as it insures different resource management gameplay for different classes.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
I don’t agree that it’s a problem. Everyone (except the rogue, I guess) benefits from a short rest. Some classes benefit more from a short rest than others. Just as everyone benefits from a long rest, and some classes benefit more from a long rest than others. This is not only fine, it’s good, as it insures different resource management gameplay for different classes.
Wotc seems to disagree with you there. Tp support that I'm going to cite all of the times Crawford has mentioned how they want to give other/every class more reasons to also want a short rest & the recent threads where someone blames long rest players for denying their short rest PC a rest because they don't want their character to wait around rather than honestly admitting the consequences of such a rest being the reason.
 

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
Wotc seems to disagree with you there. Tp support that I'm going to cite all of the times Crawford has mentioned how they want to give other/every class more reasons to also want a short rest & the recent threads where someone blames long rest players for denying their short rest PC a rest because they don't want their character to wait around rather than honestly admitting the consequences of such a rest being the reason.
Yes, Crawford has said that every class should have a short rest incentive, and then dramatically increased short rest incentives in 2024 5e.

Using this as evidence that they are not valuing short rests doesn't make sense.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Using this as evidence that they are not valuing short rests doesn't make sense.
I don't believe that's something I've said. Wotc wants everyone to have incentive to take them & wants to increase the incentive for classes that have very little... That says nothing about not valuing them. Short rest classes like the current monk & most recent warlock have too much incentive in ways that negatively impact the game & their design needs to bring that in line.
 

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