D&D General Short vs Long Rests and 5.24E

[Xeviat]

I haven't seen any discussion of one of my favorite new mechanics in the 2024 PHB. Many abilities that previously recovered on a long rest now also give a use back on a short rest.

I think this may facilitate better balance than the old short vs long rest classes. I used to advocate for changing all classes to gain most of their features back on a short rest (like changing all casters to the warlock system), but now I'm thinking splitting the difference will create the best balance.

In 5E, games with few short rests between long rests made the full casters significantly better than the likes of the fighter or monk. The game seems to assume 2 short rests between long rests to create parity between the options. Thus, an ability 1/short is equivalent uses to 3/long. 3/long, though, can use all 3 in one encounter, making them stronger fighting 1 hard fight than the 1/short.

But, an ability that is 2/long rest, regain 1/short rest splits the difference. It can be used 4 times per long rest, but only 2 times max in one encounter or scene. They can contribute extra for hard fights, or hold back on easy fights, giving some strategic decisions. I'm wondering what the warlock could look like if it's pact magic slots recovered like this.

 

[Distracted DM]

I haven't seen any discussion of one of my favorite new mechanics in the 2024 PHB. Many abilities that previously recovered on a long rest now also give a use back on a short rest.

I think this may facilitate better balance than the old short vs long rest classes. I used to advocate for changing all classes to gain most of their features back on a short rest (like changing all casters to the warlock system), but now I'm thinking splitting the difference will create the best balance.

In 5E, games with few short rests between long rests made the full casters significantly better than the likes of the fighter or monk. The game seems to assume 2 short rests between long rests to create parity between the options. Thus, an ability 1/short is equivalent uses to 3/long. 3/long, though, can use all 3 in one encounter, making them stronger fighting 1 hard fight than the 1/short.

But, an ability that is 2/long rest, regain 1/short rest splits the difference. It can be used 4 times per long rest, but only 2 times max in one encounter or scene. They can contribute extra for hard fights, or hold back on easy fights, giving some strategic decisions. I'm wondering what the warlock could look like if it's pact magic slots recovered like this.

Can you provide examples of what you're referring to from the new book? Is this some backwards-compatible rule or the new features that classes/subclasses have, and which are they?

 

[Xeviat]

Can you provide examples of what you're referring to from the new book? Is this some backwards-compatible rule or the new features that classes/subclasses have, and which are they?

In 2014, barbarians have 2 rages that recover on a long rest. This number increases with level. In 2024, barbarians also get rages back after a short rest, but only 1. So they get more uses across the day, but not extra in one encounter.

 

[Baumi]

I am curious how much (if any) changes this bring on the table. I'm still of the opionion that if you can rest for 1 hour then it should be safe (and quiet) for 8 hours so why don't you just long rest. But luckily my players don't abuse that.

A great (small) change that might be overlooked is that a long rest give you now all HD back instead of half. The old rule was just clunky and neighter realistic nor pulpy.

 

[TerraDave]

It would be great to a complete list of resting shifts—some of which go the other way to long rests. There are also the fast rest abilities for warlock and monk.

Overall it should help. I may still keep my houserule that the first short rest is only 20 minutes, and that long rests require “resty” conditions.

 

[MerricB]

I am curious how much (if any) changes this bring on the table. I'm still of the opionion that if you can rest for 1 hour then it should be safe (and quiet) for 8 hours so why don't you just long rest. But luckily my players don't abuse that.

That Prayer of Healing now gives you the benefit of a short rest (for 10 minutes casting) is really going to shake things up.

Cheers,
Merric

 

[Minigiant]

Here's the problem.

There are a lot of tables where they just don't run enough encounters per long rest.

I know of a podcast where the main DM member of the podcast says that having six encounters per long rest is crazy and they don't even understand how you can have eight encounters per long rest.

My pulled out my butt estimation is that over 30% of new DMs run less than 5 encounters and 2 short rests per long rest.

So WOTC adjusted 5e so short rest classes can nova and long rest classes can go deep.

 

[Stoutstien]

WoTC has always designed with attrition in mind but the problem is that they don't understand it. Shifting different recovery rates around doesn't really change anything.

Honestly one of the best decisions was not to definitively give a projected amount of encounters a table can handle. On the other hand it's fairly insulting that they just disregard the important factors when it comes to attrition such as pacing, cadence, and narrative reinforcement. They used the' if it works we take credit but if it doesn't work we blame the end user' approach.

Fun fact for the day they never intended there to be a encounters per short rest as some kind of threshold. They didn't even come up with that number until after the game was already released to the public and it was used as kind of a warning sign for a GM that they might be throwing too much at the party with a gracious amount of buffer added. Is designed intent was never for the players to run dry but rather they wanted just the additional pressure of the risk of doing so.

 

[Nebulous]

I have run 5e for 10 years straight now and still use the default short and long rests. I don't really have a problem with it, and I don't follow ANY encounter guidelines or Challenge Ratings (I also don't game past 10th level, which helps). My games don't favor heavy combat, which to me would mean a fight or two every session. We can easily go three or four (2 hour) sessions with just roleplaying and story stuff. What I like to do is throw in the occasional blistering difficult fight that takes an entire session (or two sessions - so a 4 hour battle) to complete. I am also more than happy if the PCs just THINK someone is going to die, or they drop to zero and needs to be healed up. I long ago made peace that D&D is more akin to a video game with instant healing after a nap, and I'm ok with that. Trying to cram the story into an artificial number of fights for balance reasons is not fun to do, so I don't do it. I wouldn't even know HOW to run 6-8 encounters per long rest and tell a coherent narrative.

 

[GMMichael]

In 2014, barbarians have 2 rages that recover on a long rest. This number increases with level. In 2024, barbarians also get rages back after a short rest, but only 1. So they get more uses across the day, but not extra in one encounter.

I'm just waiting for the poor barbarian (PB) who has a metagaming ally (MA), probably a bard, who gets snarky as the barbarian transitions from 5e to the totally-backwards-compatible 5.5e . . .

PB: I'm exhausted. Let's take a rest.

MA: Indeed! Some sleep will surely help you get more angry! Twice, even!

PB: Huh? You're making me angry right now.

MA: Whoa! We just sat down. Can you be raging so soon?

PB: Well, yeah. I used to rage twice a day. Now I can rage more if we take a short rest.

MA: That's fortuitous. Did you raise your cortisol? To another "level," one might say? Or is this a new and improved "edition" of my barbarian friend?

PB: What are you talking about? Will you just let me relax, please?

MA: Take it easy! I'll take watch twice for you, friend. Once for your anger-sleep, and once for the beauty-sleep you've obviously been neglecting. Mayhaps a lullaby? "Every breath you take, every move you make, every smile you fake . . . "