Fixing the Assassin

[Meeki]

To the OP:
I agree the assassin class is a fairly weak class compared to many other assassin like classes. The primary defining ability of the assassin class is the very weak death attack. The DC for this attack is 10+class level+int mod, which, in reality, is only going to be about dc 23 or 24 at lvl 15 (5 rogue/10assassin). The pinnacle ability of the assassin is +5 save vs. poison, which is terrible.
Here is some recommendations on changing the DM assassin prestige class.

**sorry about the double post hit tab then enter on accident**

 

[Meeki]

To the OP:
I agree the assassin class is a fairly weak class compared to many other assassin like classes. The primary defining ability of the assassin class is the very weak death attack. The DC for this attack is 10+class level+int mod, which, in reality, is only going to be about dc 23 or 24 at lvl 15 (5 rogue/10assassin). The pinnacle ability of the assassin is +5 save vs. poison, which is terrible.
Here is some recommendations on changing the DM assassin prestige class.
1. Immunities to poison at lvl 7. If you dont like this keep the poison save bonus

2. Make the death attack DC 10+class level +int modifier +1 per round of studying the target to a max of the assassins CL. So a lvl 3 assassin with 14 int would have a max dc of 10+3+2+3=DC18. Very respectable for a lvl 8 character with 3 rounds of studying probably from hiding if in combat or from mingling in a crowd or what not if in a more social situation. A level 5 rogue/10 assassin with 18 int would have a max dc of 10+10+4+10 = 34. This is a fairly high fort save to make for a death attack however it requires 10 rounds of studying, obviously not useful in combat BUT useful for assassinations!
Combined with hide in plain site a lvl 5rogue/10assassin would probably only hide 3 or 4 rounds so a dc of 10+10+4+3/4 = 27/28. Decent DC and its really only going to be used once a combat, even with hide in plain site is the assassin really going to give up that many rounds of not doing damage for a death attack that might fail.

3. at level 10 increase the save DC's for all poisons by the assassin level, if you feel this is to powerful you can use the assassin's int modifier.

These are some ideas. Gives the assassin a useful pinnacle that isn't over the top. The death attack is really the shinning star of the class. If necessary you can move the death attack to level 3 or 2. If you move it to 2 make uncanny dodge the level one ability.

 

[Nyeshet]

What if Death Attack were made a Rogue special, perhaps requiring 5d6 Sneak Attack and Crippling Strike before it could be taken. That would limit it to Rogue level 13 at earliest I think (presuming Crippling Strike were taken at level 10). Since sneak attack 5d6 is gained at rogue level 9, this could even allow the rogue to take a PrC for Crippling Strike then later come back and take a level of rogue (level 10) to gain Death Attack. Changing Death attack DC to Rogue level + Int mod would have much the same effect as 10 + Asn lv + Int mod, I think.

This does not take into account magic, granted, but I am sure there are semi-magical roguish classes and PrCs out there that offer Rogue specials as class specials. So long as they have 5d6 sneak attack and Crippling Strike, they can take Death Attack via those methods as well - and thus have their magical assassin style class.

 

[rgard]

OK, instead of threadcrapping, how about we just concede that there are people who like the WotC spellusing assassin and those that don't?

The OP is talking about tweaking the WotC one.

You still get my vote for Moderator!

 

[rgard]

Ask, and ye shall receive.

http://www.roninarts.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=302

It's a "path-based" class. You know how rangers can choose two-weapon fighting or archery? Like that, but with a lot more variety. It can handle both spell-using and (a whole bunch of) non-spell-using assassin concepts.

[/pimping]

If you are pimping, then I'm a John. I bought it awhile back. It's very well done.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

All of 'em out so far, actually.

While I'm kissing butt...my favorite so far is the Fiendblade. Yes, bought that one too.

 

[Warbringer]

Wow, some posts actually on topic

I hadn't ;looked at it for a while and one of my players is playing a character that is suited to the assassin, and I was surpised by the evry low number of spells.

Regarding using Spell Compendium, I use Pirate Cat's approach, a player can select from the SC, but has to drop one of the spells in the original list

 

[Drowbane]

PrC Assassin: Int-caster: leave them as they are... or... Cha-caster: full access to thier Assassin Spell-list.

Personally I've hated this PrC since day one...

Funny, I would have thought that a non-magical assassin would be the 'fix'. But that just my own opinion.

Same here.

Maybe just have "Death Attack" and "Poison Use" as feats that Rogues can meet the requirements for...

My house Rogues get Special Abilities at lvls 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19.

Poison Use is available as soon as 4th+ and Death Attack is 13+. I'd have to check my notes for when they can take Camoflage and Hide in Plain Sight... but roughly about the same time a Ranger could have gotten them.

What if Death Attack were made a Rogue special, perhaps requiring 5d6 Sneak Attack and Crippling Strike before it could be taken. That would limit it to Rogue level 13 at earliest I think (presuming Crippling Strike were taken at level 10). Since sneak attack 5d6 is gained at rogue level 9, this could even allow the rogue to take a PrC for Crippling Strike then later come back and take a level of rogue (level 10) to gain Death Attack. Changing Death attack DC to Rogue level + Int mod would have much the same effect as 10 + Asn lv + Int mod, I think...

Yo! Git outta ma notes!

Errr... great minds?

 

[Mouseferatu]

While I'm kissing butt...my favorite so far is the Fiendblade. Yes, bought that one too.

Thank you. The fiendblade was my favorite of the Classes of Legend to design. I'm really happy with how it turned out.

 

[DreadArchon]

Hmmm, not sure about this issue. The Assassin/Avenger sees a lot of use in my games, from both sides of the screen, because (1) it has easy prerequisites, (2) its prerequisites are actually useful, (3) it grants Sneak Attack and Poison Use at first level, (4) its spells are Int-based, (5) its spells are handy, even if not a dominating feature, and (6) it's the fastest way to qualify for the "ability to spontaneously cast arcane spells (of X level)" type of prerequisites in a rogue-like build.