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Message: <blockquote data-quote="brehobit" data-source="post: 8733412" data-attributes="member: 12032">I've not been around here a lot lately, but I've been playing a lot of 5e (and P2e).  I've been thinking about a number of archetypes that are either too powerful or too weak and how to fix them.  I'm going to start with the Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight.-----Consensus of an issue<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">RPGbot ranks it as one of the 3 weakest fighter archetypes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Every site I can find puts it in the bottom 2 or 3 of the fighter archetypes, most seem to put it at the weakest.</li> </ul>Also, I rather like both the mechanics (give others a bonus when you use a fighter power) and the niche it fills (Leader).  So it's worth trying to fix.Summary of the issueThe 3rd-level power, while fairly useful, is weak when compared to other 3rd-level fighter archetype powers.  The 7th-level power has no combat impact and the 10th level power, while quite handy, comes too late.  The 15th level power has a lot of potential, especially at higher levels, but still is fairly limited by circumstance (it's not uncommon to need to reroll a save when you are the only one targeted or when everyone else made that save)Proposed revised class.3rd level<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rallying Cry-- As written</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Inspiring Surge--As written for 10th level but 2 people at level 7 rather than 18.</li> </ul>7th level<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Royal Envoy-- As written</li> </ul>10th level<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Greater Rally--Targets of your Rallying Cry, including yourself, also gain temporary hit points equal to your Persuasion (Charisma) modifier.</li> </ul>15th level<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Strength of Personality--Gain proficiency in Charisma saving throws.  If you already are proficient in those, gain proficiency in Intelligence saving throws.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bulwark--As written</li> </ul>18th level<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rally the Host--Rallying Cry can now affect 4+your Charisma modifier (minimum 0) others rather than 3.  Bulwark can affect 2 others.</li> </ul>CommentsGiving Inspiring Surge at 3rd level is fairly huge.  I was going to put Inspiring Surge at level 7 but a fighter archetype with no offensive bonuses until level 7 seems weak for far too long of a typical game.  The upgrade at level 7 may be too much.  I would note that the "gives others a bonus when I do a thing" model makes things more limited than first appears.   When it's optimal for you to use a power may not be a point when others can best use it (Rallying Cry, Inspiring Surge, Bulwark). This in many ways makes this weaker than if the powers were independent.The biggest problem I see may be at 18th level.  I mean all of your things hit multiple people and you have a fair number of uses of two of them.  It could get to be too much.  But Wizards can do crazy things at that level...  (I've played a fair bit of very high-level and I do suspect 18th level may be a real problem, but I'd have to play test that one).I'd appreciate any feedback. Too powerful?  Still too weak?  Too much of a change?</blockquote>

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