D&D 5E Fixing the: Banneret

brehobit

Explorer
I've not been around here a lot lately, but I've been playing a lot of 5e (and P2e). I've been thinking about a number of archetypes that are either too powerful or too weak and how to fix them. I'm going to start with the Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight.
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Consensus of an issue
  • RPGbot ranks it as one of the 3 weakest fighter archetypes
  • Every site I can find puts it in the bottom 2 or 3 of the fighter archetypes, most seem to put it at the weakest.
Also, I rather like both the mechanics (give others a bonus when you use a fighter power) and the niche it fills (Leader). So it's worth trying to fix.

Summary of the issue
The 3rd-level power, while fairly useful, is weak when compared to other 3rd-level fighter archetype powers. The 7th-level power has no combat impact and the 10th level power, while quite handy, comes too late. The 15th level power has a lot of potential, especially at higher levels, but still is fairly limited by circumstance (it's not uncommon to need to reroll a save when you are the only one targeted or when everyone else made that save)

Proposed revised class.
3rd level
  • Rallying Cry-- As written
  • Inspiring Surge--As written for 10th level but 2 people at level 7 rather than 18.
7th level
  • Royal Envoy-- As written
10th level
  • Greater Rally--Targets of your Rallying Cry, including yourself, also gain temporary hit points equal to your Persuasion (Charisma) modifier.
15th level
  • Strength of Personality--Gain proficiency in Charisma saving throws. If you already are proficient in those, gain proficiency in Intelligence saving throws.
  • Bulwark--As written
18th level
  • Rally the Host--Rallying Cry can now affect 4+your Charisma modifier (minimum 0) others rather than 3. Bulwark can affect 2 others.
Comments
Giving Inspiring Surge at 3rd level is fairly huge. I was going to put Inspiring Surge at level 7 but a fighter archetype with no offensive bonuses until level 7 seems weak for far too long of a typical game. The upgrade at level 7 may be too much. I would note that the "gives others a bonus when I do a thing" model makes things more limited than first appears. When it's optimal for you to use a power may not be a point when others can best use it (Rallying Cry, Inspiring Surge, Bulwark). This in many ways makes this weaker than if the powers were independent.

The biggest problem I see may be at 18th level. I mean all of your things hit multiple people and you have a fair number of uses of two of them. It could get to be too much. But Wizards can do crazy things at that level... (I've played a fair bit of very high-level and I do suspect 18th level may be a real problem, but I'd have to play test that one).


I'd appreciate any feedback. Too powerful? Still too weak? Too much of a change?
 

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brehobit

Explorer
I was a bit sad to see no one had any responses. I suppose house rules and "fixes" like this aren't interesting to many? But any feedback would be welcome! I'd just like a sense if people feel this is close power-wise. I'm pretty comfortable with saying it keeps the theme pretty well, but power is harder to judge here.

Thanks!
 


It's an improvement certainly.

I think the basic problem with the subclass is that the features are all tied to what are for most of the game 1 per short rest abilities Second Wind and Action Surge. Fighters are always going to feel awesome the 1 turn per rest that they use each of those abilities. What I (and I think many people) want out of a Fighter subclass is something that gives me more buttons to push, not just makes my two existing 1 per rest buttons cooler.
 


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