D&D (2024) Banneret

[Eubani]

I thought I would extend a conversation I had with some players to the board. Does the changes to the Fighter in the 2024 PHB make the Banneret a valid choice when in the past it was not. The arguments put forward were:
1. More uses of Second Wind makes for more healing.
2. Other uses of Second Wind still trigger the healing, the wording is that a character uses Second Wind it does not say that it must heal hit points with it.
3. Improvement to Indomitable carries over to allies, I argued that Bulwark specifically says the ally only gets a reroll so it does not change.

On top of that there was rigorous discussion on Inspiring surge whether the Fighter got use of the extra action from Action Surge when granting an ally an action with Inspiring Surge.

 

[mellored]

Better, but still kinda weak.

Battlemaster can hand out the same hit points.
4 dice * 2 rests * 1d8+3 = 60
Vs
(3+1 rest) * 5 * 3 allies = 60

I argued that Bulwark specifically says the ally only gets a reroll so it does not change.

Agreed.


If I was going to do it, it would be something like

3: Inspiring Suge
When you use your action surge, allies within 60' of you gain temporary hit points equal to twice your fighter level.
You gain proficiency in Persuasion or another skill if you already have it.

7: Royal Envoy
You gain expertise in Persuasion or another skill if you already have it.

Rallying Stike
When you take the attack action, you can forgo one of the attacks to direct your ally to stike. One ally can use their reaction to make a weapon or unarmed attack against a creature within 5' of you.

10: Bulwark
When you or an ally within 30' is fails a saving throw, you can use Indomitable to reduce the DC of that save by your fighter level. The reduced DC applies to all saving throws of that effect. You do not get to reroll.

15: Inspiring Surge
When you use your an active surge, you and all your allies within 60' have advantage on attack rolls and saving throws and a 10' movement speed bonus until the start of your next turn.

 

[Eubani]

I do not believe there needs to be large changes of what is provided, mainly an increase of what is provided.

 

[mellored]

I do not believe there needs to be large changes of what is provided, mainly an increase of what is provided.

Ok well...

Rallying Cry is no longer terrible as written with the extra second winds.

Royal Envoy is also passable.

Inspiring Surge could use a boost. Maybe allow cantrips?

And then add the fighter level to Bulwark.


Still would be in the weaker side.

 

[Ashrym]

I didn't mind Bannaret when it came out, but that was because fighters didn't have as much access to more skills or grab Expertise through a feat. What I liked about them was adding Persuasion with Expertise for free. With that having become more accessible since it doesn't seem like as much anymore, even with changes to Second Wind for the class.

I would just make a Battle Master, tbh. They can also select Persuasion as a bonus proficiency at 3rd level and can use Tactical Mind with it if they need, and can add a Superiority Die with the Commanding Presence Maneuver. That's a better set of bonuses even if they can do it less often, which is okay for how often it might come up. Eventually Relentless at-will covers Expertise anyway. Plus the Skill Expert feat can be taken as a bonus feat at 6th level. We can make a better diplomat out of a Battle Master than a Bannaret.

I would use Commander's Strike instead of Inspiring Surge earlier and more often so a person would have to wait for 18th level Inspiring Surge to have a practical benefit those few times. Using Action Surge already allows for Commander's Strike again anyway.

Rallying Cry does offer some bonus healing, but the Rally maneuver offers a lot of thp, and also becomes at-will with Relentless. I would probably supplement this with the Healer Feat if I wanted to play that style.

Bulwark is useful but isn't available until 15th level and is limited in uses and has some limits in application.

I think Bannaret would need a good pass to be converted to 2024 given the other changes already implemented since PDK came out. I see little reason to play it outside of some bonus healing and limited benefits at very high levels. My advice would be to make a Battle Master then select Persuasion, Commander's Strike, Commading Presence, and Rally at 3rd level. That covers most of the concept and a player can build from there.

If it were me, I would probably take a Human for the bonus Origin Feat (Musician for Heroic Inspiration), a custom background if allowed or Hermit mainly for the Healer Feat and Herbalism Kit proficiency, and would consider Skill Expert and Inspiring Leader for the feats at 4th and 6th levels.

I might consider the Alert origin feat instead and adding the Ambush maneuver at some point. Adding proficiency bonus to initiative and a superiority die with the option to switch that with another PC seems kinda sweet, and useful as an alternative to Musician or Healer. ;-)

When I look at the Bannaret now compared to before and look at Battle Master, I see so much more of the concept available in the Battle Master earlier that I don't see any real point in the Bannaret without some updates.

 

[cbwjm]

One of the changes I made to the banneret when it came out was that they added their charisma bonus to the healing and there was no limit to creatures they could heal within range, basically allowing the entire party to be healed.

Otherwise, yes it is better with just the changes to the number of uses of second wind. Still not amazing, but better.