D&D (2024) Martial/Caster fix.

[grimmgoose]

There is an option.

You have to display actual examples of martials at various levels and build the classes to that.

The core issue is the designers of D&D and most D&D clones have no desire to run nor look at the progression of martial classes past level 7 or so.

Just progress the barbarian from Angry Warrior Dude to the Hulk. If you get to level 20, and haven't created a Hulk... throw away the draft and start over.

That's been my suggestion before (using the Tiers of Play), and I would love a solution like that, but it steps on the toes of people who just want martials to swing a stick and bonk a goblin -> orc -> demon -> dragon -> lich.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think WOTC is so risk averse, you won't see it in this space.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Ok, so, in conclusion-

1) Magic as it exists cannot be balanced against anything that isn't magic.

2) Not enough people want to reign in the power of magic, "because it wouldn't be magic".

3) Many people want to play characters who do not use magic (this includes doing anything that they would consider "supernatural", beyond possibly, the feats of an average action hero).

Alrighty then, nothing to see here. I think I understand the Martial/Caster deniers. There is no problem, everything is working as intended!

Be right back, I need to make an appointment. My eyes rolled so hard they hurt now.

I'm also a little vague on exactly how martials are meant to be underpowered. Like, is it because they don't do as much damage? Is it because they can't teleport and fly and grant wishes? And is it a problem at 1st level or is it just a problem at like 15th? Is it because they don't have as many options? Everyone's got a different problem they want addressed.

 

[Minigiant]

That's been my suggestion before (using the Tiers of Play), and I would love a solution like that, but it steps on the toes of people who just want martials to swing a stick and bonk a goblin -> orc -> demon -> dragon -> lich.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think WOTC is so risk averse, you won't see it in this space.

Well the base fighter and barbarian don't need to do much more than bonk a goblin -> orc -> demon -> dragon -> lich.
The core issue seems to be versatility of bonking, defenses, and utility.

Basically if mostly martial PCs are only for bonking, it needs to bonk harder.
Basically if mostly martial PCs are supposed to be helpful at something other than bonking, it needs nonbonking features that aren't spells.

 

[cbwjm]

For me caster is a lot easier to define than martial. If you can cast any spells at all you are a caster. Whether it is one cantrip once a day or a full complement of spells up to 9th level, if you cast you are a caster.

I guess what I meant was that getting casting ability from your race doesn't impact on whether I'd consider a class a caster.

 

[Voadam]

Martial has multiple definitions, noncaster and weapon combat focused. So a paladin could be a martial or not so it depends on context for usage.

In a discussion of balancing martials against casters I think the context is more non caster class stuff like champion fighters versus full caster classes like wizards instead of say balancing non weapon focused eldritch blast warlocks against hexblades.

 

[grimmgoose]

Well the base fighter and barbarian don't need to do much more than bonk a goblin -> orc -> demon -> dragon -> lich.
The core issue seems to be versatility of bonking, defenses, and utility.

Basically if mostly martial PCs are only for bonking, it needs to bonk harder.
Basically if mostly martial PCs are supposed to be helpful at something other than bonking, it needs nonbonking features that aren't spells.

Ah ha, so maybe we don't agree!

In my view, fighters and barbarians should do more than just bonk! By Tier 4, the Barbarian should be able to smash through a mountain; the fighter should be able to cleave through a horde of enemies like an isekai protagonist.

Bonking harder, in my view, doesn't fix the martial/caster disparity. The power of bonk is meaningless to a caster who can shut down an encounter with the wave of his hand, or teleport across the planes, or [insert powerful spell here].

That's what I meant, originally, when I said it's an unsolveable problem for d20 games.