Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rackhir" data-source="post: 216244" data-attributes="member: 149">Ah, yes here we go again. So once more.Rackhir's Standard Answer to Why Bow and Arrow Bonus Stacking is Not a Bad Thing (c) Yes, the ability to stack the damage and to hit bonuses is a nice feature, but let's look at some of the things you give up or can't do in exchange for that. 1) Numerous feat and prestige class skills that do NOT apply and do not have any counterparts in applicable Missile feats. Lets look at one in particular for a moment, Power attack. I had a 12th level archer character, who had a buffed attack bonus of 22/22/17/12. So basically he did not miss against most opponents except on an 1. A melee character with Power Attack (one of THE basic feats for any melee combat characters) can convert that excess attack bonus into damage with Power Attack. That can easily translate into another 5 points of damage per hit or more depending on how lucky you are feeling. I pretty much stopped looking for ways to increase his attack bonus as a result and was scrounging for ways to increase his damage. There aren't a lot out there. Whirlwind attack, Cleave/Great Cleave, Combat Reflexes (multiple AoOs) all do not work with missile weapons and have no counterpart in feats for missile weapons (though there is one ability for Arcane Archers that gives an attack against multiple opponents). There are many, many more. Spring Attack grants immunity to AoOs while doing the move-attack-move combo. Shot on the Run does not. Missile weapons do not threaten an area. This means numerous feats involving AoOs are useless since you don't threaten opponents. Unless you are an Order of the Bow Initiate, you draw an AoO whenever you fire the bow within the threat range of an enemy. 2) Strength bonuses cap out at +4 on Mighty Composite bows. For melee weapons there is no cap and a Two-handed-sword user gets a x1.5 Str bonus multiplier. On a 12th level character you could easily see a strength of up to about 30 when fully buffed (22 str, barbarian raging with bulls strength on), for a two handed weapon str damage bonus of +15. And if you have a strength bow you still need two high stats (str+dex) instead of one for the melee guy.3) Many of the bonuses to hit and damage for missile weapons do not apply at ranges greater than 30'. By some strange coincidence, this is also a standard move for most creatures. In other words, an archer at optimal range is always going to be within attack range of most creatures. 4) Rate of fire - When my archer was hasted he was geting 5 attacks a round. That means he could empty a single quiver of arrows in 4 rounds or use up a casting of GMW (50 arrows) in 10 rounds of combat (or in other words 1 to 2 combats). 5) Feats required - If you want to have a character who is decent at being an archer, you need a minimum of about 3 feats - Precise Shot, Point blank Shot, Rapid Shot. No problem if you are a fighter, if you're a paladin, ranger, barbarian. You've got some tough choices. I could go on, for example there are a number of prestige classes which are either useless (melee oriented abilities) or effectively can't be taken by archery oriented characters. With regards to GMW, buffing the bow and the arrows is two 3rd level spells a day (out of maybe 5-6) and if you don't have the mage or cleric (or couldn't talk them into casting it for you that day) you are helpless against DR creatures. Furthermore you don't get the "worst case scenario" +5 GMW until you are hitting 15th level and a +10 total bonus isn't that big a deal when you are hitting those levels. Your melee fighters will also be forcing massive damage checks on crits if they are are at all well put together. Not to mention there are melee weapons that have vastly higher crit rangesMind you none of this is to complain that Archers suck or got nerfed. My character was one of the most lethal and deadly characters in the campaign. But there are a LARGE number of limitations and restrictions on being an archer. Getting to stack the bonuses is NOT a hideous advantage and should not be taken away.</blockquote>

Verification