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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6802113" data-attributes="member: 22779">I have to admit, having played a &quot;mostly&quot; (it was a slightly modified Champion, trading extended crit range for gaining advantage fairly regularly), I'm a bit underwhelmed by the Champion.&nbsp; And, seeing a second one being played in the same campaign, it does seem a bit on the weak side.Sure, you crit, and, as was mentioned, if you have a way to regularly grant advantage, that would make a HUGE difference, but, it really does seem to lag behind.&nbsp; The BM is, by and large, getting +4d8 per short rest, the ranger with colossus slayer is getting +1d8 just about every round and the paladin is gaining boat loads of bonus damage through spells/smites.&nbsp; And the pay off for that is, again, by and large, +2 to a handful of skills.&nbsp; Seems a pretty steep price for so little gain.IMO, the best thing for champion is to gain extra attack a little bit faster.&nbsp; Say you get your second attack at 4th, (instead of 5th), and a third attack at 8th.&nbsp; Make it every 4 levels instead of every 5.&nbsp; That, right there, would put the champion in the middle of the pack and make his bonuses to crits actually come into play more often.Players shouldn't have to try to end run around things by taking things like Pole Arm Master (for the bonus attack) or Two Weapon Fighting (again for the bonus attack) just to make their class abilities come into play.&nbsp; And, really, what's the difference?&nbsp; If many players are going the route of gaining bonus attacks, why not build that into the class?&nbsp; Heck, instead of gaining extra attacks, just make an extra attack as a bonus action with no strength bonus, same as an off hand attack.&nbsp; Uses up the character's bonus action (which a Champion doesn't really need anyway) and doesn't add huge damage - just enough to bring the Champion up to snuff.Really, I think the &quot;Gain a bonus action attack on your turn&quot; benefit would resolve most of the issues.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6802113, member: 22779"] I have to admit, having played a "mostly" (it was a slightly modified Champion, trading extended crit range for gaining advantage fairly regularly), I'm a bit underwhelmed by the Champion. And, seeing a second one being played in the same campaign, it does seem a bit on the weak side. Sure, you crit, and, as was mentioned, if you have a way to regularly grant advantage, that would make a HUGE difference, but, it really does seem to lag behind. The BM is, by and large, getting +4d8 per short rest, the ranger with colossus slayer is getting +1d8 just about every round and the paladin is gaining boat loads of bonus damage through spells/smites. And the pay off for that is, again, by and large, +2 to a handful of skills. Seems a pretty steep price for so little gain. IMO, the best thing for champion is to gain extra attack a little bit faster. Say you get your second attack at 4th, (instead of 5th), and a third attack at 8th. Make it every 4 levels instead of every 5. That, right there, would put the champion in the middle of the pack and make his bonuses to crits actually come into play more often. Players shouldn't have to try to end run around things by taking things like Pole Arm Master (for the bonus attack) or Two Weapon Fighting (again for the bonus attack) just to make their class abilities come into play. And, really, what's the difference? If many players are going the route of gaining bonus attacks, why not build that into the class? Heck, instead of gaining extra attacks, just make an extra attack as a bonus action with no strength bonus, same as an off hand attack. Uses up the character's bonus action (which a Champion doesn't really need anyway) and doesn't add huge damage - just enough to bring the Champion up to snuff. Really, I think the "Gain a bonus action attack on your turn" benefit would resolve most of the issues. [/QUOTE]

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