Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6803906" data-attributes="member: 2067">The part where I think you go wrong is in caring about the delta in damage (and, potentially, distorting its size). If BMs and Champions both put out the expected amount vs. monsters, the fact that BMs might do a bit more isn't something that is going to be a big deal. Trading 12 damage for a simple character is a rounding error most of the time in a game as diverse as 5e. If you want to say that the Champion can't deal enough damage, that's not the same as saying that the Champion deals less damage than the BM (or the ranger or the paladin or whatever). For evidence that the Champion doesn't deal enough damage, I'd be looking for how they compare at various levels to the expected HP values of monsters with a variety of Defensive CR's. If that's not up to snuff (including up to what, say, an abjurer or a life cleric could do), then the Champion probably has an issue.But I think the size of the problem is probably distorted in your mind. A subclass can't usually tank a character's damage values because a subclass just isn't that big a chunk of the character's abilities. The design of the game isn't relying on a BM's extra 4d8 to make it &quot;good enough,&quot; there's rarely a time where that 4d8 becomes the thing that determines if a character or monster gets another turn. It's not directly relevant, it's just a cherry on top of what a fighter can already do. I don't dispute your experience, but I would dispute the universality of your experience, and pinning the problem on the subclass seems misaimed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6803906, member: 2067"] The part where I think you go wrong is in caring about the delta in damage (and, potentially, distorting its size). If BMs and Champions both put out the expected amount vs. monsters, the fact that BMs might do a bit more isn't something that is going to be a big deal. Trading 12 damage for a simple character is a rounding error most of the time in a game as diverse as 5e. If you want to say that the Champion can't deal enough damage, that's not the same as saying that the Champion deals less damage than the BM (or the ranger or the paladin or whatever). For evidence that the Champion doesn't deal enough damage, I'd be looking for how they compare at various levels to the expected HP values of monsters with a variety of Defensive CR's. If that's not up to snuff (including up to what, say, an abjurer or a life cleric could do), then the Champion probably has an issue. But I think the size of the problem is probably distorted in your mind. A subclass can't usually tank a character's damage values because a subclass just isn't that big a chunk of the character's abilities. The design of the game isn't relying on a BM's extra 4d8 to make it "good enough," there's rarely a time where that 4d8 becomes the thing that determines if a character or monster gets another turn. It's not directly relevant, it's just a cherry on top of what a fighter can already do. I don't dispute your experience, but I would dispute the universality of your experience, and pinning the problem on the subclass seems misaimed. [/QUOTE]

Verification