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<blockquote data-quote="SmokingSkull" data-source="post: 6805908" data-attributes="member: 6791384">It does depend on actual play, because honestly your campaign experiences will vary. Playing today on my Champion I kicked a lot of ghost butt (I annihilated one with my pike) additionally I took a chunk out of the really big earth elemental that popped out of the ground and decided to almost crush our Shadowmancer (MC Rogue/Warlock/Monk). While it's true that the BM's maneuver's can do many things you have to pick and choose. You only can swap them out at levels you can choose new maneuvers at, not before so you do have to select carefully. All this assumptions that all BM's have the same maneuvers and fight the same types of fights over and over is irrelevant. Imo they're not that amazing, especially in a campaign where there's lack of short rests (the one I'm playing actually). Although that is also my personal bias showing but I digress. Some people just want to play something they don't have to manage much and Champion is it. However I don't agree that it's necessarily a new player friendly class, after all you can make it as complex or as simple as you desire. I say that cause I play with feats on mine, and while that's not true for every campaign in mine at least I can choose them and do. Hell if I wanted maneuvers that badly I'd pick up the Martial Adept feat, then I can have maneuvers and a better crit threat range (Idc that's it's only 2 with a d6 SD, so what?). But as always this is just my opinion, take it for what you will but don't distort it for what it's not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="SmokingSkull, post: 6805908, member: 6791384"] It does depend on actual play, because honestly your campaign experiences will vary. Playing today on my Champion I kicked a lot of ghost butt (I annihilated one with my pike) additionally I took a chunk out of the really big earth elemental that popped out of the ground and decided to almost crush our Shadowmancer (MC Rogue/Warlock/Monk). While it's true that the BM's maneuver's can do many things you have to pick and choose. You only can swap them out at levels you can choose new maneuvers at, not before so you do have to select carefully. All this assumptions that all BM's have the same maneuvers and fight the same types of fights over and over is irrelevant. Imo they're not that amazing, especially in a campaign where there's lack of short rests (the one I'm playing actually). Although that is also my personal bias showing but I digress. Some people just want to play something they don't have to manage much and Champion is it. However I don't agree that it's necessarily a new player friendly class, after all you can make it as complex or as simple as you desire. I say that cause I play with feats on mine, and while that's not true for every campaign in mine at least I can choose them and do. Hell if I wanted maneuvers that badly I'd pick up the Martial Adept feat, then I can have maneuvers and a better crit threat range (Idc that's it's only 2 with a d6 SD, so what?). But as always this is just my opinion, take it for what you will but don't distort it for what it's not. [/QUOTE]

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