Fixing the DMG Demographics

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Restating the assumptions

There I'd disagree with you - someone who's making a reliable living at something has to be able to "take 10" on your average every-day tasks.

Now, your typical modern-day paper-pusher might be able to get by with *really* low skill levels, since their typical tasks are probably hovering around DC 10-15 (or even lower).

However, your pseudo-medieval farmer (or craftsman) is facing rougher challenges than "where'd I put that form?" and needs higher skill levels.

I guess the real question is what is the DC of the "typical task", and what's the DC of a task worthy to be counted as a EL 1 encounter?

I'd think the DC of a 'typical task' was 10. Apparently you think it's more like DC20! I don't think the farmer's tasks are any tougher - _to a farmer_. Asking the medieval farmer to input a spreadsheet would be like asking the 21st century office clerk to hoe the field. Neither would do well. Doesn't mean the task is more than DC10, but they're skills you need to be trained in to use.

 

[Xeriar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Restating the assumptions

I'd think the DC of a 'typical task' was 10. Apparently you think it's more like DC20! I don't think the farmer's tasks are any tougher - _to a farmer_. Asking the medieval farmer to input a spreadsheet would be like asking the 21st century office clerk to hoe the field. Neither would do well. Doesn't mean the task is more than DC10, but they're skills you need to be trained in to use.

DC 10 implies that anyone with the proper physical or mental competance can complete the task without training if undistracted. Thus 'taking 10'.

DC 15 implies skills that either entail some basic intuition or training.

DC 20 implies a skill that requires training to succeed regularly - ie, make masterwork swords.

 

[S'mon]

IMO only a master craftsman - not a typical weaponsmith - should be able to make masterwork swords, and only for the greatest should success be automatic.

I disagree with the idea that anyone should be able to succeed at any DC10 task automatically. The 3e rules don't handle it well, but presumably the PCs are assumed to have at least default competence (skill level 0) in skills such as riding.

 

[Xeriar]

IMO only a master craftsman - not a typical weaponsmith - should be able to make masterwork swords, and only for the greatest should success be automatic.

In Japan there is an actual law that requires swordsmiths not to create more than two katanas a month, to presere the quality of the craft

I disagree with the idea that anyone should be able to succeed at any DC10 task automatically. The 3e rules don't handle it well, but presumably the PCs are assumed to have at least default competence (skill level 0) in skills such as riding.

Dude, attribute of 10, skill rank 0, take 10 = succeed at DC 10. You don't like it, change the rules - it doesn't matter if you disagree with it, that's how it currently is.

 

[GuardianLurker]

Many Re: Restating the assumptions

DC 10 implies that anyone with the proper physical or mental competance can complete the task without training if undistracted. Thus 'taking 10'.

DC 15 implies skills that either entail some basic intuition or training.

DC 20 implies a skill that requires training to succeed regularly - ie, make masterwork swords.

Right, which is why IMC I've raised the MW DC (for *any* item) to be 30.

I look at DC 20 as those tasks that are basically impossible for an untrained person, but relatively easy for a trained person. Basic mechanics: a person with a +0 bonus suceeds 5% of the time, +5 25%, and +10 50%.

Basically, the DCs overall are too low. But that's another thread.

 

[Xeriar]

I've posted a bit of a quandery here...
I need a class-picking algorithm, to be precise.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44652

Grrr...