Fixing the fighter: the surge problem

[Quartz]

As umpteen threads have shown, there's a problem with the fighter. One aspect of that is the problem of the surge. Not the Action Surge, though that's part of it. The surge here is a boost over and above normal.

Look at the Barbarian: the Barbarian can surge by raging for 1 minute - often an entire encounter.
Look at the Paladin: the Paladin can surge by smiting as long as she has spells left.
Look at the Ranger: the Ranger can surge indefinitely through abilities like Horde Breaker and Colossus Slayer.
Etc.

Contrast the fighter: the fighter gets Action Surge 1/day (2/day very late) for one round, the Battlemaster can surge for a few extra rounds through her maneuvers. It doesn't really compare, does it? Sure the fighter can keep on trucking, but it's only at 11th level that her base attacks exceed other classes, and that's very late in the day for many players.

I believe I have a simple solution: just as the Rogue automatically gets Cunning Action as a bonus action, so let the Fighter get an extra attack - not a full attack sequence, just one strike - as an automatic bonus action. Note that as a bonus action, it doesn't stack with other bonus actions.

Being simple, it is, of course, wrong. Tell me why.

 

[Li Shenron]

Action surge is once per short rest, not per day. Depending on the adventure, it sometimes means up to once per encounter.

And the best part of it is that it stacks with everything (except another action surge).

 

[DEFCON 1]

It all comes down to each individual table and how they run encounters. Your table might find the fighter weak in comparison, others might not.

So it's not wrong for you. But as far as why it's wrong in general? Everyone else isn't you.

 

[JValeur]

If you did that, then suddenly TWF is utterly useless. As is many feats. The fighter is really balanced for what it is - a fighter - in my opinion. I think you're forgetting the archetypes, who either have significant passive boosts or exciting active abilities.

 

[Quartz]

If you did that, then suddenly TWF is utterly useless.

I actually edited out a comment about that, noting that the TWF combat style would still let you add your stat as damage.

As is many feats.

Such as? Feats like Shield Master and Polearm Master give you a bonus action, but you have to be using the shield or polearm respectively. This lets you get that bonus attack when you're not using those feats (and those feats would over-ride this ability). Those feats also typically let you add stat bonuses.

The fighter is really balanced for what it is - a fighter - in my opinion.

I'm not so sure. As I noted above, it's notably worse than other fighting classes. I didn't even mention the Bard or Warlock.

I think you're forgetting the archetypes, who either have significant passive boosts or exciting active abilities.

No I haven't forgotten the archetypes: I even cited the Battlemaster in my OP. The champion gets an extra crit - double damage dice - once in a while. At low levels it goes from once in 20 rolls - about once per short rest - to once per 10 rolls - about once per encounter. Meanwhile the rogue is getting Sneak Attack much more often. And the Paladin is smiting whenever she wants and the Ranger is getting the benefits of Colossus Slayer or Horde Breaker. I'll note that the extra damage (one weapon die) is about the same as the Ranger's Colossus Slayer ability (1d8) while using up the bonus action.

 

[Quartz]

Action surge is once per short rest, not per day.

D'oh! I knew that. I also knew what I wrote didn't look quite right, but didn't spot the error. The point stands, though: Action Surge lasts for a very short time whereas the surge abilities of other classes do not.

 

[JValeur]

But it certainly decreases your inclination to go Two-weapon fighting, Polearm Mastery or (possibly not, because the -5/+10 is so strong on its own) Great Weapon Mastery, if you are already able to attack with your bonus action.

Why would you ever two-weapon fight if you can have the same amount of attacks with a two-handed weapon, or short and board? Why would I pick up polearm master to deal 1d4 + mod, when I can just deal 2d6 + mod with my bonus action instead? Surely you can see, that your suggestion completely voids some options?

 

[Quartz]

But it certainly decreases your inclination to go Two-weapon fighting, Polearm Mastery or (possibly not, because the -5/+10 is so strong on its own) Great Weapon Mastery, if you are already able to attack with your bonus action.

Why would you ever two-weapon fight if you can have the same amount of attacks with a two-handed weapon, or short and board?

Because you only add your stat bonus to the bonus attack only if you have two weapons and the TWF fighting style. So your 2H fighter wielding a greatsword indeed gets a bonus attack at 2d6, but that's it. (Okay, there's a slim chance of a critical, and the sword may have a magical effect.) And compare that - an average of 7 HP, if it hits - with the Ranger's Colossus Slayer bonus damage of 1d8 or 4.5 HP or 2d8 or 9 HP (for two hits so two bonus dice of damage) at 5th level - not so bad now, is it? And it can look positively puny compared to Smite damage.

Why would I pick up polearm master to deal 1d4 + mod, when I can just deal 2d6 + mod with my bonus action instead? Surely you can see, that your suggestion completely voids some options?

For a start, you're not adding the stat mod, you're just getting a basic strike. And polearms grant you reach which a 1H weapon does not. And Polearm Mastery lets you hit for 1d4 + Str mod.

 

[Eubani]

My problem is that the fighter surrenders next to all ability in the exploration and social pillars of the game and has nothing to show for it. I can also tell right away that WotC is going to put none or close to effort into making new manuevers (too busy making new soells I guess), I also believe the battlemaster needs a few more dice as they progress levels.

 

[JValeur]

Because you only add your stat bonus to the bonus attack only if you have two weapons and the TWF fighting style. So your 2H fighter wielding a greatsword indeed gets a bonus attack at 2d6, but that's it. (Okay, there's a slim chance of a critical, and the sword may have a magical effect.) And compare that - an average of 7 HP, if it hits - with the Ranger's Colossus Slayer bonus damage of 1d8 or 4.5 HP or 2d8 or 9 HP (for two hits so two bonus dice of damage) at 5th level - not so bad now, is it? And it can look positively puny compared to Smite damage.



For a start, you're not adding the stat mod, you're just getting a basic strike. And polearms grant you reach which a 1H weapon does not. And Polearm Mastery lets you hit for 1d4 + Str mod.

Even without damage mod - which the OP says nothing about - your GWFS damage at level 1 goes from 11.33 to 19.66, where a TWF has 13. Now there is 0 reason to TWF, even at low levels, if you are a fighter. It usually gets outackled at lvl 4 or 11, depending on feat availability, but now doesn't even have merit at lvl 1. I don't think I can explain this more clearly.

Polearm Mastery bonus attack will deal 7.5 at max level, which is still less than 8.33. So that part of the feat is useless. You are simply giving fighters a boost in damage that removes from other features (making some even more mechanically inferior) and doesn't really strengthen the class more than feat selections.