Fixing the Monk Class

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
I have a rough final draft of all the changes I feel are needed to make a monk competent in combat and would like opinions and reviews (or questions if anything is unclear) from anyone willing to read. :)

[sblock]- Qinggong Monk replaces Monk as the class (since there's really no reason for a Monk not to be one). Any Ki Power that grants a feat only costs 1 Ki (unless it cost 0 already) and lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Monk's Wisdom modifier each activation.

- Monks recieve full Base Attack Bonus, not just when using flurry of blows. The benefit of maneuver training is that Monks add their Wisdom modifier, in addition to strength, to their Combat Maneuver Bonus. The Monk's Flurry of Blows receives Improved TWF at level 6 and Greater TWF at level 11 to reflect the change in BAB.

- Bonus feats: A monk may select Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Mobility, Scorpion Style, and Throw Anything as bonus feats at 1st level. At 6th level, she may also select Gorgon's Fist, Ki Throw, Snatch Arrows, Spring Attack, Tripping Twirl, and Wind Stance. At 10th level, she may also select Greater Blind-Fight, Improved Critical, Improved Ki Throw, Lightning Stance, Medusa's Wrath, and Whirlwind Attack.

- Inner Strength: A monk may use her Wisdom modifer to determine bonus hit points for each Monk HD she posseses instead of Constitution. At 3rd level, the Monk has learned to fully harness her strength of will. She may now replace Constitution with Wisdom on Fortitude saves, and dies when her negative hit points total reaches her Wisdom score, rather than Constitution. If she suffers enough ability damage or drain to reduce her Constitution score to zero, the Monk remains in a catatonic state but does not die until a number of rounds equal to her wisdom score transpire, and only if her Constitution has not been brought back above 0 by then.

- AC Bonus: A Monk gains a +1 bonus to AC, in addition to her Wisdom modifier, at level 2. This bonus increases by +1 every three levels thereafter (5th, 8th, etc...). This progression replaces the current one of +1 per 4 levels.

- A Monk's Fast Movement bonus applies to any mode of movement for which she has a listed speed.

- Ki Strike: Ki Strike (Magic) gives an actual, continuous enhancement bonus to the Monk's unarmed strikes. It starts at +1 at level 4 and increases every four Monk levels thereafter, up to +5 at 20th level. When the Monk gains Ki Strike (Lawful), her unarmed strike gains the Axiomatic magical property. Ki Strike is a Supernatural ability.

- Monks, and only Monks, may take Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) as a feat.

- Maneuver Mastery: At level 5, a Monk can initiate any combat maneuver without provoking an Attack of Opportunity. Furthermore, she is treated as though she has all the "Improved" combat feats and their prerequisites for the purposes of qualifying for other feats.

- Wholeness of Body only costs 1 ki point to use, and heals hit points equal to double the Monk's level as a standard action, or hit points equal to the Monk's level as a swift action, the benefit and associated action chosen by the Monk each time she uses this ability. At level 15, Wholeness of Body always heals twice the Monk's level in damage and can be used as an Immediate action. If used in this way, it can heal the damage as it happens and prevent the Monk from reaching the dying, dead, staggered, or unconscious conditions.

- Rushing Torrent: At level 7, a monk has perfected her flurrying technique and can now add her additional flurry of blows attacks to any attack action, instead of being limited to a full attack action. This includes, but is not limited to, readied actions, charges, martial strike maneuvers, and Spring Attacks. The monk simply chooses to apply the flurry attacks at the start of the action (taking the appropriate attack penalty to attack rolls). If used with Vital Strike or a similar feat, base weapon damage is only multiplied on the first attack.

- Perfect Self: In addition to the listed benefits, the Monk gains Fast Healing 5 and a Fly speed of 60 ft (plus Fast Movement) at Perfect maneuverability as constant benefits. The Monk may still be considered her original creature type (such as Humanoid) in order to receive beneficial spells or effects. Finally, the Monk gains Smite Chaos once per encounter, as the Paladin ability Smite Evil, except that it targets chaotic creatures, uses Wisdom modifer and Monk level instead of charisma and Paladin level, and deals double damage on the first hit to a chaotic outsider.[/sblock]

A lot of it is simply trying to make the most notoriously bad class features decent, if buffing stuff like Wholeness of Body or Perfect Self seemed arbitrary. Please don't complain if it somehow seems to outshine other non-casters now. I plan to also buff them (though none as much as the monk, which is the worst class in PF), so none of them will end up looking quite the same, either. If this monk a) can actually do his job and be an effective melee and skirmishing combatant and provide a real threat to the enemy and b) is still undeniably less powerful than a full spellcaster, then I've achieved the power window I was aiming for.

EDIT: And the point of Inner Strength is to reduce their horrific multiple ability dependency. Gaining physical toughness through sheer will is a theme I rather like, hence why I chose to make Con the dump stat. Also for the novelty of possibly being the only class ever to have Con as a dump stat.
 
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I've never played a monk in any version of D&D, but I applaud your efforts to fix what is apparently a broken class. The ideas you have seem sound to me and look pretty cool.
 


I agree that Maneuver Mastery is a little too good. While eliminating AoO for using maneuvers is a good idea, waiving requirements for feats throws off the power curve of the feat tree and gives lower level monks access to feats they weren't meant to have. I'd instead put all the Improved feats on the bonus feat list, and say that Maneuver Mastery means the monk now gets a +4 bonus to CM checks related to the Improved feats he takes, instead of the normal +2.

Wisdom for bonus Hit Points I like, but I think swapping to Wisdom for Fortitude checks is overkill. The monk has decent enough Fortitude even with lackluster Constitution as it is.

Other features seem bumped a little too high, but if you are doing the same for other classes, they are probably fine. All in all there are a lot of good ideas here.
 

Stripped to bare bones, d20 monk is a lightly armored, weaponless melee fighter with enhanced mobility.
And it plays like one - you need to get close to opponents, you have problems with taking advantage of magic items because tools of your trade mimic fighter's, only they are rarer, costlier and need to cover weaknesses of even more limited style of fighting.

Given this premise, I am of the opinion that monks need to be redesigned at the core - get ranged attacks, ability to deal with magical challenges and defensive abilities different from those of barbarian (hitpoints, DR, armor), paladin (hitpoints, armor, auras, spells, self-healing) and fighter (armor, armor training, feats, hitpoints, maneuvers and criticals).

I like your proposal, I would say that in addition to your changes, I would also:
- end the myth of monkish weapons. Monks should gain martial proficiencies just like other warrior classes do.
- add mystical barriers to make up for lack of magic items improving defensive qualities. Allow the barriers counter wider array of abilities. Allow the barriers to be made into area effects (holy shrines, protective circles, wide area curses).
- add mystical counters to nullify, block, dampen, weaken supernatural abilities, spell-like abilities and spells, usable as swift or immediate actions.
- replace Ki points with Ki powers (i.e. enter Ki Trance and use Ki powers) and track Ki Trance duration instead of tracking point pool.

In short, I would place a monk in the rock-paper-scissor dependency triangle, with spellcasters winning against warriors, warriors outperforming monks, and monks becoming bane to those who rely on supernatural abilities.
I know that some steps were made already in this direction however I find them not sufficient unless a player is very well versed in optimizing characters.
Additionally, about Qinggong monk... it is a weak form sorcerer with some basic monk abilities. Why not take full caster in its stead?

Regards,
Ruemere
 

Maneuver Mastery might be too good? Not sure.

I agree that Maneuver Mastery is a little too good. While eliminating AoO for using maneuvers is a good idea, waiving requirements for feats throws off the power curve of the feat tree and gives lower level monks access to feats they weren't meant to have. I'd instead put all the Improved feats on the bonus feat list, and say that Maneuver Mastery means the monk now gets a +4 bonus to CM checks related to the Improved feats he takes, instead of the normal +2.

Monks with this can access Greater Trip and the like at the exact same level as a Fighter. It does not waive the BAB +6 requirement, merely the Int 13, Combat Expertise, and other things a monk cannot afford to obtain. He's not even getting the +2 bonus from the Improved feats, just the ability to avoid AoOs and move on to the next level of maneuver feats. It is true a monk with this can get Greater maneuver feats in greater quantity than a Fighter most likely. Is that really a problem? Is it overpowered to be good at several different maneuvers instead of just one or two? And SHOULDN'T the monk of all classes be the one that is potentially good at lots of combat maneuvers?

If it's really too strong, I could make it so you simply get the Improved feat (including +2 bonus) of any one combat maneuver of your choice, and in addition count as having all of that feat's prerequisites when selecting other combat maneuver feats. And then every X levels, the monk gets to pick another combat maneuver to apply these benefits to.

But I really don't think it needs to be nerfed like that.

Wisdom for bonus Hit Points I like, but I think swapping to Wisdom for Fortitude checks is overkill. The monk has decent enough Fortitude even with lackluster Constitution as it is.

No, it's not sufficient. If Con isn't replaced for fort saves, it will not be a dump stat, just having a good base save is NOT enough. The point was simple, to make monk "only" a 3 stat class -- Wis, Str, and Dex. With still not wanting to have negative int or con. It's still pretty MAD, but it's a start. If con is still being used for hp or fort, it will remain far too important to not put a positive modifier in.

Other features seem bumped a little too high, but if you are doing the same for other classes, they are probably fine. All in all there are a lot of good ideas here.

Monks really needed a lot of help. What else is bumped too high? The level 20 capstone that previously actually made the monk worse (I'd take being elligible for enlarge person over DR 10 AAAAAANY day!)?
 

Stripped to bare bones, d20 monk is a lightly armored, weaponless melee fighter with enhanced mobility.
And it plays like one - you need to get close to opponents, you have problems with taking advantage of magic items because tools of your trade mimic fighter's, only they are rarer, costlier and need to cover weaknesses of even more limited style of fighting.

Given this premise, I am of the opinion that monks need to be redesigned at the core - get ranged attacks, ability to deal with magical challenges and defensive abilities different from those of barbarian (hitpoints, DR, armor), paladin (hitpoints, armor, auras, spells, self-healing) and fighter (armor, armor training, feats, hitpoints, maneuvers and criticals).

I like your proposal, I would say that in addition to your changes, I would also:
- end the myth of monkish weapons. Monks should gain martial proficiencies just like other warrior classes do.
- add mystical barriers to make up for lack of magic items improving defensive qualities. Allow the barriers counter wider array of abilities. Allow the barriers to be made into area effects (holy shrines, protective circles, wide area curses).
- add mystical counters to nullify, block, dampen, weaken supernatural abilities, spell-like abilities and spells, usable as swift or immediate actions.
- replace Ki points with Ki powers (i.e. enter Ki Trance and use Ki powers) and track Ki Trance duration instead of tracking point pool.

In short, I would place a monk in the rock-paper-scissor dependency triangle, with spellcasters winning against warriors, warriors outperforming monks, and monks becoming bane to those who rely on supernatural abilities.
I know that some steps were made already in this direction however I find them not sufficient unless a player is very well versed in optimizing characters.
Additionally, about Qinggong monk... it is a weak form sorcerer with some basic monk abilities. Why not take full caster in its stead?

Regards,
Ruemere

I wouldn't mind that, but that would require a complete redesign, and would require many, many things. To have someone who is actually a caster's bane without spellcasting himself. I'm not interested in going that far, but I'd be gla to help you if you worked something out. Just throwing out ideas for your new monk:

Same chasis as before (HD, BAB, saves, needs Spellcraft skill)
SR should allow effects the monk wants in automatically without need to lower it
Monk needs flight. Preferably non-magical flight.
Monk should have the ability to meld his items into his body, retaining the benefits and bonus types, but turning the effects into a "non-magical" inherent boon, such that they still function in an AMF and can't be suppressed with dispel magic.
Eventually the monk needs the ability to generate an AMF / null magic field around himself.
He should have Evasion and Mettle. And possibly the Spell Reflection alternate feature from C.Mage, too.
The mage slayer feats in his bonus feat tree
24/7 Mind shielding (as the ring) morphing into continuous Mind Blank at high levels
Extraordinary sight abilities. Start with Blidsense, improve to Blindsight, and eventual ability to see into the ethereal plane.
At will detect magic.
At some point, the ability to find the remnant traces of a teleportation spell, using detect magic an spellcraft to ID who used it and where they went, and the ability to use the lingering magic energy to follow them through it.

And so forth. Note none of this will really help him survive getting hacked in two by a greatsword, it simply makes the monk an actual bane to casters.
 

Monks with this can access Greater Trip and the like at the exact same level as a Fighter. It does not waive the BAB +6 requirement, merely the Int 13, Combat Expertise, and other things a monk cannot afford to obtain. He's not even getting the +2 bonus from the Improved feats, just the ability to avoid AoOs and move on to the next level of maneuver feats. It is true a monk with this can get Greater maneuver feats in greater quantity than a Fighter most likely. Is that really a problem? Is it overpowered to be good at several different maneuvers instead of just one or two? And SHOULDN'T the monk of all classes be the one that is potentially good at lots of combat maneuvers?

If it's really too strong, I could make it so you simply get the Improved feat (including +2 bonus) of any one combat maneuver of your choice, and in addition count as having all of that feat's prerequisites when selecting other combat maneuver feats. And then every X levels, the monk gets to pick another combat maneuver to apply these benefits to.

But I really don't think it needs to be nerfed like that.

I guess that makes sense. I didn't realize they wouldn't get the benefits of the feats. I don't really think it's too good now, but maybe... something else. I mean, if a Monk wants to be REALLY good at a combat maneuver, wouldn't he want to take the "Improved" feat for the +2? And if he wants to, then what is the point of having Maneuver Mastery? It makes the Monk player feel like he's wasting a feat taking Improved Trip when he essentially already gets it.
 

Ultimate Combat is out now. Does it have additional maneuvers and tricks for monks?

It should, shouldn't it? :D I think monks have long been identified as problem children.
 

Well, he can take the feat for +2 still if he really wants to max out his bonus. But he can still take Greater and get the +2 along with the other benefits, he's still adding his wisdom to CMB, and he can still use a tripping weapon like the Temple Sword (or even unarmed, though the enhancement progression he gets is kinda slow, he'd probably need to buy the Amulet of Mighty Highway Robbery) and boost up its enhancement and take weapon focus and so forth (since you apply all your attack bonuses with the tripping weapon on your CMB).

I guess I figured most monks wouldn't really care about missing out on the +2. A small price for broad access to all maneuvers.
 

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