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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Fixing the newly broken rogue class (thanks to Andy and 3.5)
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<blockquote data-quote="bret" data-source="post: 1023355" data-attributes="member: 713"><p>I thought that I read somewhere that the reason they moved it down to 4th level was so that 3rd level didn't get overloaded with specials.</p><p></p><p>Then to be consistent, they moved the Improved Uncanny Dodge down as well.</p><p></p><p>There are a lot of changes that either directly or indirectly change the rogue.</p><p></p><p>On the positive side, you have:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Finesse now affects all weapons</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You now get simple weapon proficiency, which gives you Gauntlets, Slings and Spears</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Very minor: You no longer have to spend skill points on Inneuendo or Read Lips.</li> </ul><p></p><p>On the negative side:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You are no longer the best scout. The ranger takes that away now that they have nearly as many skill points [6 vs 8]. He is also much better at it underground because of his Knowledge skills.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You are no longer the best face-man. The Bard takes that away now that they have more skill points</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You have to wait longer for Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge. Most rogues depend on Dex for AC, so the first change is much worse than the second.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You are even more strongly relegated to 'Trap Finder' than in 3.0. In my opinion, finding and disabling traps just isn't much fun. It eats up two different skills (Search and Disable Device) and just isn't fun to play.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Very minor: You no longer have the ability to find your direction. This was folded into Wilderness Lore which is cross class.</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>I wouldn't call the rogue broken, but I do think it is more underpowered and less flexible than before. It is still the easiest class to get by without, and there is less incentive to play one than before.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bret, post: 1023355, member: 713"] I thought that I read somewhere that the reason they moved it down to 4th level was so that 3rd level didn't get overloaded with specials. Then to be consistent, they moved the Improved Uncanny Dodge down as well. There are a lot of changes that either directly or indirectly change the rogue. On the positive side, you have: [list] [*]Finesse now affects all weapons [*]You now get simple weapon proficiency, which gives you Gauntlets, Slings and Spears [*]Very minor: You no longer have to spend skill points on Inneuendo or Read Lips. [/list] On the negative side: [list] [*]You are no longer the best scout. The ranger takes that away now that they have nearly as many skill points [6 vs 8]. He is also much better at it underground because of his Knowledge skills. [*]You are no longer the best face-man. The Bard takes that away now that they have more skill points [*]You have to wait longer for Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge. Most rogues depend on Dex for AC, so the first change is much worse than the second. [*]You are even more strongly relegated to 'Trap Finder' than in 3.0. In my opinion, finding and disabling traps just isn't much fun. It eats up two different skills (Search and Disable Device) and just isn't fun to play. [*]Very minor: You no longer have the ability to find your direction. This was folded into Wilderness Lore which is cross class. [/list] I wouldn't call the rogue broken, but I do think it is more underpowered and less flexible than before. It is still the easiest class to get by without, and there is less incentive to play one than before. [/QUOTE]
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Fixing the newly broken rogue class (thanks to Andy and 3.5)
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