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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sonofapreacherman" data-source="post: 1024452" data-attributes="member: 2315">Skill points next to special class abilities? Sorry, but characters can get by with barely any skills at all. The special rage ability, additional +10 feet movement, and uncanny dodge ability far outstrip the Evasion ability granted by my rogue at 2nd level. Heck, take 1 level of monk, and you can walk away with evasion. Giving my rogue evasion at 2nd level, and uncanny dodge at the same time as barbarians hardly breaks the balanced mold. Keep stretching.Fine, as a lawful neutral character, I take 1 level of cleric, 1 level of druid, 1 level of monk, 1 level of ranger and 1 level of sorcerer before I even start to hand pick my prestige classes. There is no rule currently in place to stop me from making such a character. The fact is, a good DM simply has to say "no" sometimes, because every system, including Dungeons and Dragons, still needs supervision.Hehe. Not everything needs to be quoted for it to be addressed. Reflex saves, good or bad, make no difference when the trap targets your AC. To say that a barbarian can dodge such traps with the same effectiveness as a rogue, to whom setting and disabling such devices is the staple of their party duties, is unadulterated silliness. I guess my earlier metaphor was more complicated than I thought.That's fine. But not to misquote me, I have no problem with barbarians *having* the Trap Sense ability, so long as rogues are better at it.Two other class skills the rogue enjoys which the barbarian does not, and therefore two more reasons why the rogue should be the superior of barbarians when it comes to all things traps. The lack of Sense Motive and Spot in the barbarian skill list only serve to confirm, on a conceptual level, that barbarians are not known for their perceptiveness (not to mention their rage ability, preventing tasks that require patience or concentration; like, for instance, opening a door that offers more resistance than it should).If it rivaled or equaled the trap sense of rogues, correct. Was that question meant to be easy?Well that's your problem right there. Don't use stereotypes. Case in point…Why is this ability any more stereotypical for barbarians than any other character? At least rogues are practiced at exploiting openings with their sneak attack ability. It makes perfect sense that they would also know how to protect those same openings on themselves. If that was your strongest argument, you're in serious trouble.Then by your own admission, you are very oblivious to the real world. Once a rogue has broken into a score of homes, that rogue has a pretty damn good idea how to protect his home against such an invasion. This goes back to my previous metaphor again. The exact same principal applies to flanking sneak attacks and protection from flanking.Once again, I have no problem with the barbarian having improved evasion (although he has no more claim to it than any other melee character), but barbarians should definitely not be better at it 2 and 3 levels sooner than rogues. Thus my proposed changes to solve that oversight (although I am sure WotC did it on purpose).I love it! Now you attempting to analyze me with pop psychology assumptions. Here's an old tip for you. Don't make an ass out of yourself. Stick to the arguments on the page. My bias for disliking dead levels is entirely based on fun. Everybody likes to get a new ability at every level, and so if they can be appropriately balanced, like the barbarian or the monk, then they should. They are the pips that we look forward to earning for good role-playing, nothing more. Hence my rogue revisions. Characters should be rewarded at every level with more than just numbers.See above.But I don't, so that decimates your assumption-based argument again.If you're playing any one of those spellcasters, it's for the spells (except perhaps where the bard is concerned).I'll let you know when I start *trying* to invalidate your arguments. So far, no effort.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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