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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Fixing the newly broken rogue class (thanks to Andy and 3.5)
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<blockquote data-quote="Sonofapreacherman" data-source="post: 1025395" data-attributes="member: 2315"><p>Before this gets even further out of hand, my biggest problem with the revised rogue is that the class fails to live up to its niche now. In much the same way that the ranger previously failed to lived to the niche of wilderness warrior, now the rogue fails to live up to their niche as the sneakiest party member.</p><p></p><p>On a conceptual level, before any mechanical changes were made to the rogue, the designers really needed to keep in mind that rogues are the quintessential trapfinders and defusers. They didn't do that here. The ability to detect traps is now equally shared with barbarians. Rogues are meant to be the most perceptive of the character classes, seeing the opportunities that other miss and exploiting them, whether that means breaking into a house or sliding a dagger between your ribs. Conversely, they also know how to protect themselves against such dangers (by logical reverse application of their skills). Now barbarians can protect themselves during melee even more so than rogues.</p><p></p><p>While the rogue has by no means lost everything that makes them unique, they have lost a lot. Sure, they can inflict obscene amounts of damage with a successful sneak attack. Nobody is really contesting that. But if sneak attack damage is all that sets the rogue apart now... then that's pretty damn pathetic (concept-wise). You can point to their skill points, but the ranger and bard have closed that gap on that as well. Making rogues superior trap finders and uncanny dodgers, who are at least *on par* with barbarians, is the least that can be done. Adding abilities like Hide in Plain sight is the most.</p><p></p><p>I'll say this much. Making revisions to a game that has been revised this recently isn't going to make me popular, but I see no point in wasting time. The rogue got marginalized in this edition. I'd like to start correcting that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sonofapreacherman, post: 1025395, member: 2315"] Before this gets even further out of hand, my biggest problem with the revised rogue is that the class fails to live up to its niche now. In much the same way that the ranger previously failed to lived to the niche of wilderness warrior, now the rogue fails to live up to their niche as the sneakiest party member. On a conceptual level, before any mechanical changes were made to the rogue, the designers really needed to keep in mind that rogues are the quintessential trapfinders and defusers. They didn't do that here. The ability to detect traps is now equally shared with barbarians. Rogues are meant to be the most perceptive of the character classes, seeing the opportunities that other miss and exploiting them, whether that means breaking into a house or sliding a dagger between your ribs. Conversely, they also know how to protect themselves against such dangers (by logical reverse application of their skills). Now barbarians can protect themselves during melee even more so than rogues. While the rogue has by no means lost everything that makes them unique, they have lost a lot. Sure, they can inflict obscene amounts of damage with a successful sneak attack. Nobody is really contesting that. But if sneak attack damage is all that sets the rogue apart now... then that's pretty damn pathetic (concept-wise). You can point to their skill points, but the ranger and bard have closed that gap on that as well. Making rogues superior trap finders and uncanny dodgers, who are at least *on par* with barbarians, is the least that can be done. Adding abilities like Hide in Plain sight is the most. I'll say this much. Making revisions to a game that has been revised this recently isn't going to make me popular, but I see no point in wasting time. The rogue got marginalized in this edition. I'd like to start correcting that. [/QUOTE]
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Fixing the newly broken rogue class (thanks to Andy and 3.5)
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