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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Fixing the newly broken rogue class (thanks to Andy and 3.5)
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<blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 1025916" data-attributes="member: 4134"><p>Hide in Plain Sight should belong to the rogue if it belongs to the ranger, but camouflage isn't for rogues IMO. Camouflage is a wilderness thing, and I always thought of rogues as city dwellers, or dungeon delvers. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I strongly disagree. </p><p>So what is his niche?</p><p>Sneaking around in all imaginable enviroments? Still got it</p><p>Having a vast selection of class skills and many many skill points? Check</p><p>Unleashing the hells with his sneak attack? You better bet the farm on it.</p><p>Finding and disarming trap? You know who you're gonna call!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The ranger might outsneak him in the wilderness, but as soon as you're in the city or in the dungeon, the ranger's new powers won't work again. But the rogue's abilities work everywhere.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely not. Barbarians can react to traps really good (they get the same bonuses as rogues, though rogues tend to have the higher dex and the better base ref bonus). The rogues are still the only ones that can find the nasty traps and disarm them withouth them going off.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Most sneaky? Yes. Most perceptive? Not necessarily. Monks aren't bad at it either, because they need high wisdom which represents perceptiveness.</p><p></p><p>And skills cannot also be reverse applicated. If that were so, the BAB would be applied to your armor class (if you know better how to attack, you know better how to defend). If skills represented action and anti-action, there wouldn't be seperate skills for the respective two things: Move Silently and Listen are two different skills, though with your reasoning you should know what to listen for. Still, you are able to have one of these things maxed out and not a single rank in the other.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They haven't lost much. They still have their sneak attack, their huge list of class skills, their truckload of skillpoints, the exclusive contract on finding and disabling all but the easiest of traps, and a nice blend of special features.</p><p></p><p>The fact that several classes have approached the rogues doesn't change that. And the rogue is still the master of these things (still the only with sneak attack, still the most skill points, still the most class skills, still the only trapfinders and -disarmers, still the only one with both uncanny dodge AND evasion, still the only one all those special features.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not the revising it again that's making you unpopular. It's the trolling that makes us break out the flasks of acid.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kae'Yoss, post: 1025916, member: 4134"] Hide in Plain Sight should belong to the rogue if it belongs to the ranger, but camouflage isn't for rogues IMO. Camouflage is a wilderness thing, and I always thought of rogues as city dwellers, or dungeon delvers. I strongly disagree. So what is his niche? Sneaking around in all imaginable enviroments? Still got it Having a vast selection of class skills and many many skill points? Check Unleashing the hells with his sneak attack? You better bet the farm on it. Finding and disarming trap? You know who you're gonna call! [B][/B] The ranger might outsneak him in the wilderness, but as soon as you're in the city or in the dungeon, the ranger's new powers won't work again. But the rogue's abilities work everywhere. [B][/B] Absolutely not. Barbarians can react to traps really good (they get the same bonuses as rogues, though rogues tend to have the higher dex and the better base ref bonus). The rogues are still the only ones that can find the nasty traps and disarm them withouth them going off. [B][/B] Most sneaky? Yes. Most perceptive? Not necessarily. Monks aren't bad at it either, because they need high wisdom which represents perceptiveness. And skills cannot also be reverse applicated. If that were so, the BAB would be applied to your armor class (if you know better how to attack, you know better how to defend). If skills represented action and anti-action, there wouldn't be seperate skills for the respective two things: Move Silently and Listen are two different skills, though with your reasoning you should know what to listen for. Still, you are able to have one of these things maxed out and not a single rank in the other. [B][/B] They haven't lost much. They still have their sneak attack, their huge list of class skills, their truckload of skillpoints, the exclusive contract on finding and disabling all but the easiest of traps, and a nice blend of special features. The fact that several classes have approached the rogues doesn't change that. And the rogue is still the master of these things (still the only with sneak attack, still the most skill points, still the most class skills, still the only trapfinders and -disarmers, still the only one with both uncanny dodge AND evasion, still the only one all those special features. [B][/B] It's not the revising it again that's making you unpopular. It's the trolling that makes us break out the flasks of acid. [/QUOTE]
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Fixing the newly broken rogue class (thanks to Andy and 3.5)
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