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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 1028087" data-attributes="member: 4134">So you're saying rogues should receive d12 had, too, because that makes them hardier against traps? Now we have to invent something beyond troll for you.Why should the ranger be better at it then others who live in the wilderness just as the ranger does and devote the same resources (no, actually more resources, since they have to buy the feat, and have less skill points to put into survival and thus it hits them harder - but the loss of a feat is the real hitter here)?See? This proofs that uncanny dodge has nothing to do with sneak attacks.Then why doesn't uncanny dodge say "you are immune to sneak attacks"? I ask you what does that have to do with uncanny dodge? Cause uncanny dodge won't help you against a feint. It will help you if the fighter wins initiative and attacks you, or if that invisible stalker strikes you.I'm not oblivious to your counterpoints. It's just that your counterpoints don't maky any sense.Potential trapfinders. If you won't take ranks in search, you won't be very good at it. Any other character with godlike intelligence and full ranks in search, on the other hand, will still be no good trapfinder, cause he simply cannot find these traps, except for those who are easiest to find.Now the rules don't "pigeon hole" you to become a rogue trapfinder. They give you the potential to do so. If you want to be good at defeating traps (the rogue way, not the barbarian or tank way), you can be as a rogue. If you don't want, it's no big deal.If I remember right, you pulled that ridiculous class combination out of your fez as a way to "prove" that three levels of rogue to a fighter are powergaming. Instead of telling you that you are using inflated examples, we simply took your example apart, showing that it was not proof for powergaming, but for a really poor attempt to present and über-charakter.babarians usually have no more than medium armor, let's just say breastplate. Rogues tend to have leather or studded leather, which impose no armor penalty. So we're two points apart, maybe three, in the armor bonus to AC. Rogues usually compensate that with their dexterity. This means that barbarians and rogues are more or less equally good at avoiding traps that use attack rolls. Rogues are still vastly superior at avoiding traps that require a reflex save (both for their higher reflex bonuses and because of their evasion), AND have the potential to actually find and disable the traps (requiring no reflex save or high AC), which the barbarian cannot.Tracking is not the sole domain of the ranger, and never was. But now it's far easier for him to become a good tracker (just as it is far easier for a rogue to become good at defeating traps than is anyone else. That hasn't changed at all. See above).These are things that have already been encroached upon. He still is best at all of them, and still he is the only one who has them all. And still he has a couple of things exclusively (and these things haven't changed, haven't become more or less since 3.0)I haven't read a single clever thing coming from you on the whole board. And I did read it from front to back.Of course players can cherry pick classes. They just have to watch out for XP penalties. Humans (and half-elves) can cherry pick much easier, but that's their shtick.And it's not foolish. It's what multiclassing is about. It no longer forces you to keep your levels even, but allows you to take as many or as much levels of the classes as you want. If one level or two levels of rogue are enough to get the things your character is supposed to have, it's OK. We use them all the time. Emphasis is on we. If you never say you use skills, how can the DM call on skill checks? (beyond the usual ones. Spot and listen checks for example. are for the DM to call, and in the campaigns I play in, they do call for spot and listen checks) If someone talks to me and I don't say that I'll use a sense motive check, the DM assumes that I don't pay attention whether he is honest or not. If I don't say I search, I cannot get search checks. (unless we're talking invisible doors and elves here) The players have to decide what they do.I'm playing a rogue right now with a truckload of skill points in a lot of skills, and I use them all the time.</blockquote>

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