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Flamestrike and Stalker0's little adventure
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<blockquote data-quote="bert1001 fka bert1000" data-source="post: 8296293" data-attributes="member: 7029588"><p>I enjoyed this little exercise.</p><p></p><p>So, was the original idea to test the following 2 point of views?</p><p></p><p>Camp 1 - Wizards (full casters?) overshadow other classes, even starting at low/mid levels, like 7th. Wizards can contribute at the top during combat as well as have a ton of narrative / out of combat spells to invalidate the need for other classes.</p><p></p><p>Camp 2 - That's not really true except for thought exercises/white room. It's true that there probably is a spell for almost anything, but real play considerations make it so that in reality Wizards don't always have the right spell and can't always spam their highest level spells. Based on the system assumed 2-2-2 encounters per day (6 encounters total with 2 short rests), Wizards have to carefully ration their spells and there are many circumstances (some social, exploration, etc.) where it is just better party-wise to let the non-limited resource characters open the door, parley, etc. so the Wizard can save slots (shifting "spotlight"). The Wizard is by no means weak, but won't overshadow others in an expected day.</p><p></p><p>Camp 1 Rebuttal - That's true for 2-2-2 days but most campaigns have a variety of encounters/day and it's artificial to force 2-2-2 days everyday. There are a lot of 1 to 2 encounter days for narrative purposes where the Wizard then becomes much, much better...</p><p></p><p>Is that fair?</p><p></p><p>This demonstration points to Camp 2 being right for a 2-2-2 day at 7th level, but is it also true at 11th or 15th? I don't have a lot of high level 5e play, but experience from previous editions says the problem usually gets worse at higher levels as there are more spell slots to devote to the "other stuff".</p><p></p><p>As for the adventuring day, I agree with Stalker0. To always force a 2-2-2 day narratively is tough. It would be ideal if the 2-2-2 could sometimes happen over more than 1 in game day but seems like these concepts are too strictly tied to the narrative in RAW 5e. This is ripe for a home brew / official variant rule where "spell regain" is after 6 encounters and "short rest power regain" is after every 2 encounters. You just need some in game justification not so tightly tied to "resting". That does take some of the tactical "do we short rest or not?" / "do we retreat and get our spells back" decisions away. But these decisions are only meaningful in the ticking clock situations which should happen, but feel artificial to always happen.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bert1001 fka bert1000, post: 8296293, member: 7029588"] I enjoyed this little exercise. So, was the original idea to test the following 2 point of views? Camp 1 - Wizards (full casters?) overshadow other classes, even starting at low/mid levels, like 7th. Wizards can contribute at the top during combat as well as have a ton of narrative / out of combat spells to invalidate the need for other classes. Camp 2 - That's not really true except for thought exercises/white room. It's true that there probably is a spell for almost anything, but real play considerations make it so that in reality Wizards don't always have the right spell and can't always spam their highest level spells. Based on the system assumed 2-2-2 encounters per day (6 encounters total with 2 short rests), Wizards have to carefully ration their spells and there are many circumstances (some social, exploration, etc.) where it is just better party-wise to let the non-limited resource characters open the door, parley, etc. so the Wizard can save slots (shifting "spotlight"). The Wizard is by no means weak, but won't overshadow others in an expected day. Camp 1 Rebuttal - That's true for 2-2-2 days but most campaigns have a variety of encounters/day and it's artificial to force 2-2-2 days everyday. There are a lot of 1 to 2 encounter days for narrative purposes where the Wizard then becomes much, much better... Is that fair? This demonstration points to Camp 2 being right for a 2-2-2 day at 7th level, but is it also true at 11th or 15th? I don't have a lot of high level 5e play, but experience from previous editions says the problem usually gets worse at higher levels as there are more spell slots to devote to the "other stuff". As for the adventuring day, I agree with Stalker0. To always force a 2-2-2 day narratively is tough. It would be ideal if the 2-2-2 could sometimes happen over more than 1 in game day but seems like these concepts are too strictly tied to the narrative in RAW 5e. This is ripe for a home brew / official variant rule where "spell regain" is after 6 encounters and "short rest power regain" is after every 2 encounters. You just need some in game justification not so tightly tied to "resting". That does take some of the tactical "do we short rest or not?" / "do we retreat and get our spells back" decisions away. But these decisions are only meaningful in the ticking clock situations which should happen, but feel artificial to always happen. [/QUOTE]
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