Flaming Sphere? Rules Expert HELP!!!

[The_Spider]

From the PHB
Direct or Redirect a Spell
Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell requires a move action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity or require concentration.

This is all I could find to handle the sphere's movement. Is line of sight or line of effect needed to move the flaming sphere? I know its needed to cast it.

From the Spell
A burning globe of fire rolls in whichever direction you point and burns those it strikes.

In my game, a wizard uses this spell to move the sphere into the room that my players elven ranger is standing in
The caster lives in the tower and knows the room size (10' by 10') he moves the sphere around the room but can not see the ranger behing the wall. The movement is enough for the sphere to land in his square. After several round of this he lies dying nad the wizard who cant see him coninues to move it around on his turn resulting in the rangers death. Many rounds later after reading the spell an argument breaks out about the spells use with that player but its to late to change anything as the battle has carried on, and this was a massive battle using minatures, 50 or so.

I ruled the caster only needs to point at but not see the sphere, but now im honestly not sure , I need a real rules expert to help me my players fate lies in the balance...We want to do this stricly by the rules so if you are a rules expert please state your reply as fact is...
If you just have an opinion id like to hear it, please state so by saying I believe...

If you rule that the caster must see the sphere in order to point (line of sight) at it then, the sphere cant be used in this way, it cant be used to say go around a corner for example if the wizard is standing in a hall. In this case. Ill rule that the ranger is unconscious and his friends will save him. If so I have some other questions that happened in the game.

If a caster is blinded could he still direct his sphere around? What if there is a person between him and his sphere in a hall. Would this interfere with line of sight?

If you rule that the caster must only point and concentrate at but not see to move the sphere then the ranger is probably not only dead but burned pretty bad. -10 + 10d6 damage before the spells duration expires. As a side thought how much damage ruins a body making raise dead fail?

SpellFlaming Sphere
Evocation [Fire]

Level: Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2

Components: V, S, M/DF

Casting Time: 1 standard action

Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)

Effect: 5-ft.-diameter sphere

Duration: 1 round/level

Saving Throw: Reflex negates

Spell Resistance: Yes

A burning globe of fire rolls in whichever direction you point and burns those it strikes. It moves 30 feet per round. As part of this movement, it can ascend or jump up to 30 feet to strike a target. If it enters a space with a creature, it stops moving for the round and deals 2d6 points of fire damage to that creature, though a successful Reflex save negates that damage. A flaming sphere rolls over barriers less than 4 feet tall. It ignites flammable substances it touches and illuminates the same area as a torch would.

The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest and burns. It can be extinguished by any means that would put out a normal fire of its size. The surface of the sphere has a spongy, yielding consistency and so does not cause damage except by its flame. It cannot push aside unwilling creatures or batter down large obstacles. A flaming sphere winks out if it exceeds the spell’s range.

Arcane Material Component: A bit of tallow, a pinch of brimstone, and a dusting of powdered iron.

 

[Caliban]

1) Why was the ranger staying in the room? If the sphere can get in, the ranger should be able to get out.

2) Directing the sphere may not require LOS, but it should require Line of Effect. If the room was sealed after the sphere went in, the mage shouldn't be able to control it any longer. (This can be gotten around by leaving a square foot hole open somewhere in the room with the wizard on the other side though.)

3) The ranger could have readied an action to move ahead of the sphere when it enters his square. If the wizard couldn't see him, and there was nothing else for the ranger to deal with, he should have easily been able to stay away from the sphere until the spell ran out.

 

[The_Spider]

Hi Caliban

1. The Ranger should have left the room but he didnt, he was actually attacking the sphere with his sword.

2. From what I understand line of effect works just like line of sight except, darkness, concealment, etc.. doesnt hinder line of effect. So if the door was closed, the wizard could still direct it around the room which is 2 by2 squares. Though he would do so by pointing at it through a wall.

3. thats clever that would have worked

however what i really need to know is can the wizard direct the sphere around blindly by pointing at it if he cant see it?

 

[The_Spider]

So if you need line of effect to move the sphere, you could not move it around the room. So if he closed the door, the caster would not be able to point at it. However what we have is a open door and a wall that blocks line of effect anyway so closing the door shouldnt matter.

Which leads me to these 3 questions.

Should the globe really require line of effect? This means it has to be a straight line to the target without obstacles. Which means the wizard could do it if he were blind in a open room! So why should it matter if the wall was even there.

"A burning globe of fire rolls in whichever direction you point and burns those it strikes"

Questions about line of effect

Can the caster send his globe around a corner?

If he was blind could he no longer point at the sphere to move it even if it was right in front of him?

A burning globe of fire rolls in whichever direction you point and burns those it strikes. It moves 30 feet per round. As part of this movement, it can ascend or jump up to 30 feet to strike a target. If it enters a space with a creature, it stops moving for the round and deals 2d6 points of fire damage to that creature, though a successful Reflex save negates that damage

Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast. A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone-shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell’s line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell’s line of effect.

 

[Caliban]

however what i really need to know is can the wizard direct the sphere around blindly by pointing at it if he cant see it?

I have always played that you don't need to see the sphere, but you do need line of effect to the sphere. I don't think it's spelled out in the rules though.

 

[The_Spider]

So does anyone know how this spell works?

 

[tensen]

I need to ask:

Why is the wizard burning up his tower with the sphere?

 

[Infiniti2000]

So if you need line of effect to move the sphere, you could not move it around the room.

That's correct. You need line of effect to move the sphere to a new location because flaming sphere is not an emanation, burst, or spread. You do not need line of sight.

So if he closed the door, the caster would not be able to point at it. However what we have is a open door and a wall that blocks line of effect anyway so closing the door shouldnt matter.

I agree, I think, but I'm a little confused about what the door has to do with anything. The wizard is trying to move the sphere outside his line of effect, which is not possible.

Should the globe really require line of effect? This means it has to be a straight line to the target without obstacles. Which means the wizard could do it if he were blind in a open room! So why should it matter if the wall was even there.

Yes, it should require line of effect. The problem with being blind is that the wizard wouldn't know where to move the sphere. The sphere could possibly stop at a wall or whatever.

Can the caster send his globe around a corner?

No, he needs line of effect.

If he was blind could he no longer point at the sphere to move it even if it was right in front of him?

Sure he could. He just can't see where he's pointing.

 

[Murrdox]

I don't see anything specifically written the Flaming Sphere spell description which says you need line of effect OR line of sight to redirect the sphere. Obviously you need it to CAST the sphere, but why can't you direct the sphere around corners?

Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.
You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.
A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone-shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin).
An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell’s line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell’s line of effect.

Since he's not casting Flaming Shere ON something outside his line of effect, I see no reason why he cannot direct the flaming sphere beyond his line of effect.

Let's say that I cast Flaming Sphere. Afterwards, someone casts "Wall of Ice" between me and my sphere. Obviously I can still SEE my Flaming Sphere, but the Wall of Ice breaks line of effect. You're saying that I can no longer redirect the sphere?

As far as I can tell, controlling the sphere is almost like controlling Summoned Creatures. Once you summon a monster, you can TELL it to go out of your sight or or out of your line of effect, and it keeps going.

If you lose line of sight on the sphere, you simply just have to blindly redirect it. If you tell it to "go west", but there is a wall right there, then the flaming sphere stays put, and the wizard has no idea if the sphere actually moved or not.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I don't see anything specifically written the Flaming Sphere spell description which says you need line of effect OR line of sight to redirect the sphere. Obviously you need it to CAST the sphere, but why can't you direct the sphere around corners?

Since he's not casting Flaming Shere ON something outside his line of effect, I see no reason why he cannot direct the flaming sphere beyond his line of effect.

I see it from your quote, specifically regarding "...or to any space in which you wish to create an effect." Although the spell is cast, you're still creating the effect in a new space (by moving it) and this rule applies.

Let's say that I cast Flaming Sphere. Afterwards, someone casts "Wall of Ice" between me and my sphere. Obviously I can still SEE my Flaming Sphere, but the Wall of Ice breaks line of effect. You're saying that I can no longer redirect the sphere?

That's right.

As far as I can tell, controlling the sphere is almost like controlling Summoned Creatures. Once you summon a monster, you can TELL it to go out of your sight or or out of your line of effect, and it keeps going.

I see no analogy to summoning creatures at all. They are under their own control, not yours.