Flaming whip

[Hypersmurf]

A whip does no damage to someone that has any armor bonus to AC.

What if it were a flaming whip, would the 1d6 still do damage?

My answer is no.

The flaming whip is a whip. The fire damage is damage dealt by the flaming whip, and is thus damage dealt by a whip. A whip cannot deal damage to an armored opponent. Therefore a flaming whip cannot deal fire damage to an armored opponent.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well, see, you just can't take out the word flaming. Hyp, if you put flaming back in your sentences as follows, you'll see the error.

The flaming whip is a whip. The fire damage is damage dealt by the flaming whip, and is thus damage dealt by a flaming whip. A flaming whip cannot deal damage to an armored opponent. Therefore a flaming whip cannot deal fire damage to an armored opponent.

Note that it's really the second underlined flaming I disagree with you omitting. You are linking the idea of a whip not doing damage to an enhancement specifically categorized as bonus damage. Aside from the argument of "you can't get a bonus to nothing", is there some other reason you would disallow it? The argument for flaming bypassing DR strongly supports flaming applying to whips (unless you also say that flaming does not bypass DR).

 

[Hypersmurf]

The argument for flaming bypassing DR strongly supports flaming applying to whips (unless you also say that flaming does not bypass DR).

Fire damage certainly bypasses DR.

But this isn't DR. This is Whips Cannot Deal Damage To An Armored Opponent.

It's the whip dealing the damage, whether it's slashing damage or fire damage. No whip, no fire damage; and since the whip cannot deal damage, the opponent takes no damage - bonus or otherwise.

If an opponent has DR 10/Bludgeoning, the slashing damage dealt by the whip is protected against, but the fire damage dealt by the whip isn't. If the opponent has armor, all damage dealt by the whip is negated.

Hyp, if you put flaming back in your sentences as follows, you'll see the error.

I'm looking at it, and I still don't see the problem...

-Hyp.

 

[RangerWickett]

A bullwhip can slice flesh from cattle, cut lizards in half, and shatter glass bottles. I like to argue the absurdity of the rule that says that whips cannot hurt armored opponents by pointing out that fists can hurt armored opponents, and so can shuriken.

I can understand that a whip should only do nonlethal damage. That's fair. But why can any other weapon hurt a creature, regardless of its armor, even if that armor's 6-inch thick dragon scale, but not whips?

By the way, Hyp, a net has no damage entry, but the rules do not specifically say that a net cannot hurt creatures. So can a flaming net hurt you on a successful hit? The rules certainly don't seem to contradict it, and if we allow a smidgen of logic to creep into our rules lawyering, wouldn't it make sense that the fire damage from a flaming weapon is not held to all the same standards as weapon's own damage?

 

[Hypersmurf]

By the way, Hyp, a net has no damage entry, but the rules do not specifically say that a net cannot hurt creatures. So can a flaming net hurt you on a successful hit?

A net is a thrown weapon. Str bonus is added to damage with thrown weapons. Can a net hurt you on a successful hit if the thrower's Str is greater than 11?

Thrown Weapons: Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons. The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons).

Can a Rog9 deal 5d6 sneak attack damage with a net if he's within 30 feet and you're denied Dex bonus to AC?

-Hyp.

 

[interwyrm]

That's ridiculous
*Snicker*

 

[domino]

Can a Rog9 deal 5d6 sneak attack damage with a net if he's within 30 feet and you're denied Dex bonus to AC?

-Hyp.

Maybe he manages to throw the whole thing down the throat of the enemy, suffocating him?

And of course, there was the sneak attack with a ham sandwich conversation that came up a while ago.

 

[Coredump]

A bullwhip can slice flesh from cattle, cut lizards in half, and shatter glass bottles. I like to argue the absurdity of the rule that says that whips cannot hurt armored opponents by pointing out that fists can hurt armored opponents, and so can shuriken.

I can understand that a whip should only do nonlethal damage. That's fair. But why can any other weapon hurt a creature, regardless of its armor, even if that armor's 6-inch thick dragon scale, but not whips?

By the way, Hyp, a net has no damage entry, but the rules do not specifically say that a net cannot hurt creatures. So can a flaming net hurt you on a successful hit? The rules certainly don't seem to contradict it, and if we allow a smidgen of logic to creep into our rules lawyering, wouldn't it make sense that the fire damage from a flaming weapon is not held to all the same standards as weapon's own damage?

Well, the standard whip isn't really a bullwhip, just a whip. And you can deal lethal damage with it, by taking a -4 on the attack. Of course, this still doesn't help against an armored opponent.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Fire damage certainly bypasses DR.

But this isn't DR. This is Whips Cannot Deal Damage To An Armored Opponent.

It's the whip dealing the damage, whether it's slashing damage or fire damage. No whip, no fire damage; and since the whip cannot deal damage, the opponent takes no damage - bonus or otherwise.

See, you're just not backing that up. There's no rule that says that bonus damage does not apply. Whip damage doesn't apply, sure. Fire damage, sonic damage, holy damage? They all apply (or not, depending on the creature's immunities). You keep using the word 'cannot' and that has a significantly different connotation that 'does not.'

Does not deal damage - True.
Cannot deal damage - False (or at best unproven either way)

If the entirety of your stance is " It deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus ..." then that is insufficient.

I'm looking at it, and I still don't see the problem...

It's your ... *counts* ... third sentence and is not different from the above, so I won't repeat myself.

A net is a thrown weapon. Str bonus is added to damage with thrown weapons. Can a net hurt you on a successful hit if the thrower's Str is greater than 11?

Good question. What does the hypen mean? Does it mean "this weapon deals no damage?"

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

See, you're just not backing that up. There's no rule that says that bonus damage does not apply.

It doesn't need to.

1. A whip does no damage against an armored opponent. (Rule)
2. A flaming whip is a whip. (Lemma)
3. If a flaming whip does "no damage + 1d6 fire," then a whip is doing damage against an armored opponent
4. This is a contradiction.

Ergo, a flaming whip does not do damage to an armored opponent.

EDIT: Forgot a step.