Flaming whip

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Tables are only trumpeted by text when there's a conflict. There's no apparent conflict with the net. However, there's no definition of "-" for damage either. And, there's no rule that says that "no damage" means "-" instead of "0". No could just as easily mean 0. You might counter with, "Well, if they meant 0, they would've written 0." To which, the obviously counter is, "Well, if they meant - they would've written -."

You mean like they did?

Net 20 gp — — 10 ft. 6 lb. —

And there is a general definition of a trait which has a value of " - " - it's "N/A", not "0."

A creature with a Dex of 0 is different than a creature with a Dex of -.

EDIT:

There's also:

Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage
Medium Weapon Damage Tiny Weapon Damage Large Weapon Damage
1d2 — 1d3

 

[Infiniti2000]

You mean like they did?

Oops, actually, I intended that part for whips, not nets. Please reconsider my post starting with the sentence, "And, ..." to be about whips.

So then a net still does it's strength modifier in damage, correct?

No, because a net clearly has "-" listed. It's unambiguous as to whether it's "-" or "0".

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

No, because a net clearly has "-" listed. It's unambiguous as to whether it's "-" or "0".

Well a bastard sword has "-" on its range even though by the rest of the RAW you can throw it in ranger increments of 10 feet...

So what's the difference between throwing a bastard sword and a net doing damage? The rules both say something the chart doesn't.

 

[IcyCool]

Well a bastard sword has "-" on its range even though by the rest of the RAW you can throw it in ranger increments of 10 feet...

So what's the difference between throwing a bastard sword and a net doing damage? The rules both say something the chart doesn't.

A Bastard Sword has no range increment.

A Bastard sword used as an Improvised ranged weapon has a range increment of 10ft. at a -4 to the attack roll.

See the difference?

 

[IcyCool]

If the damage from a flaming weapon is done by the weapon and not the enchantment- the basis for denying the fire damage for a whip striking an armored opponent- what happens when the flaming weapon is flaming but not being used as a weapon?

Then it cannot get a successful "hit". Check the combat rules for a definition of this.

That is:

#1) What happens when the weilder of a Flaming sword gently lays the flat of the flaming sword's blade on the palms of a human (call him Vic Timm) and says the command word? Does Vic get burned and take 1d6 flame damage?

I'm thinking the answer is yes. The weapon is on fire, and fire burns. Vic takes 1d6 fire damage.

By the RAW, nope. Why exactly are you trying to use logic and common sense here?

#2) Considering your answer to question #1, would the same happen to Vic if the weapon was a Flaming whip? (or a Flaming net? A Flaming Man-Catcher?)

I'm thinking the answer is yes in each case. The weapon is on fire, and fire burns. Vic takes 1d6 fire damage.

No again. And again you are attempting to use logic and common sense.

It doesn't matter that the weapon isn't doing damage because its the enchantment- the weapon's magical enhancement-doing the damage.

No, it isn't. Show me where in this statement that it says the flaming enhancement (and not the weapon) is doing the damage:

A flaming weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit.

And to answer your post about the Flaming Burst ability. That is a reference to the Flaming ability. So you refer to the Flaming ability. Which says the weapon deals the damage.

To those of you trying to use logic and reason, don't, it will only hurt your head. Take a breath, read what the SRD actually says, say "Huh, that's dumb", and house rule it.

RAW means "Rules As Written". Not "What The Authors Intended", not "What Makes Sense". Hopefully these things can be brought to the attention of folks in power and given an Errata entry.

 

[ZeroGlobal2003]

Longbow: You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. A longbow is too unwieldy to use while you are mounted. If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a longbow. If you have a bonus for high Strength, you can apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite longbow (see below) but not a regular longbow.

Longbow 75 gp 1d6 1d8 x3 100 ft. 3 lb. Piercing
Arrows (20) 1 gp — — — — 3 lb. —
Longbow, composite 100 gp 1d6 1d8 x3 110 ft. 3 lb. Piercing
Arrows (20) 1 gp — — — — 3 lb. —

So, if you use a longbow as an improvised melee weapon you don't get your strength bonus to attack, but you do if you use a composite longbow as an improvised melee weapon. There is clearly something wrong with that.

Frost: Upon command, a frost weapon is sheathed in icy cold. The cold does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given. A frost weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of cold damage on a successful hit. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the cold energy upon their ammunition.
Moderate evocation; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, chill metal or ice storm; Price +1 bonus.

Here is the proof that your whole "- + X = -" theory is a load of bunk. The ability clearly says that it adds the energy to the ammunition. The energy clearly says it adds damage to the weapon, in this case the ammunition. By your arguement Flaming, Frost, Shocking, etc add damage to - and do nothing. +1 flaming bow firing an arrow fires a normal arrow.

The rules say it doesn't as does all common sense.

Zero

 

[Infiniti2000]

So, if you use a longbow as an improvised melee weapon you don't get your strength bonus to attack, but you do if you use a composite longbow as an improvised melee weapon. There is clearly something wrong with that.

There is. You don't use the bow or composite bow description when you use it as an improved weapon. You look up an appropriate weapon (e.g. club) on the weapon list to use as a guideline. That's specifically called out in the improvised weapon rules.

 

[IcyCool]

So, if you use a longbow as an improvised melee weapon you don't get your strength bonus to attack, but you do if you use a composite longbow as an improvised melee weapon. There is clearly something wrong with that.

True, but that is what is written in the RAW, correct? And that is what we are arguing here. Not what makes sense, not what seems wrong, but what is acutally written in the Rules. A weapon used as an improvised weapon uses the improvised weapon rules.

Edit - Just saw Infiniti's post. Nice catch!

Frost: Upon command, a frost weapon is sheathed in icy cold. The cold does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given. A frost weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of cold damage on a successful hit. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the cold energy upon their ammunition.
Moderate evocation; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, chill metal or ice storm; Price +1 bonus.

Here is the proof that your whole "- + X = -" theory is a load of bunk. The ability clearly says that it adds the energy to the ammunition. The energy clearly says it adds damage to the weapon, in this case the ammunition. By your arguement Flaming, Frost, Shocking, etc add damage to - and do nothing. +1 flaming bow firing an arrow fires a normal arrow.

The rules say it doesn't as does all common sense.

Zero

Interesting point, and I was wondering when someone would bring up bows.

 

[Octal40]

+1d6 is a modifier. It modifies a value. If there's no value to modify, it can't apply.

Are you guessing or quoting the rules? If quoting, please provide the source. Otherwise, you're just guessing.

Also, where in the SRD does it say that "no damage" equates with "--" and not "0 damage"?

 

[ZeroGlobal2003]

There is. You don't use the bow or composite bow description when you use it as an improved weapon. You look up an appropriate weapon (e.g. club) on the weapon list to use as a guideline. That's specifically called out in the improvised weapon rules.

From the equipment section of the SRD:

Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses one in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

It is possible to throw a weapon that isn’t designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn’t have a numeric entry in the Range Increment column on Table: Weapons), but a character who does so takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

It is not specifically called out that the bow's strength adding limitations are ignored, just as a whip does not. If you believe a flaming whip deals no damage to armored targets because normal whips deal no damage to armored targets, then a thrown longbow does not extra strength damage because normal longbows deal no extra strength damage. One used as an improvised melee weapon wont deal any extra stength damage unless you are meleeing with a composite longbow.


All of that is besides the point that according to Smurf and Patryn's view of how the mechanics work flaming bows deal no extra damage at all, unless used as an improvised melee weapon with no Strength bonus to damage.

Zero

Edited for readability.