Flavour matters

[Scribble]

I said this in another post, but I'll say it again... The fluff changes they are making seem to highlight the changes to the system itself.

If they left all the fluff the same people would have a harder time grasping the actual changes to the core. Changing the fluff solidifies the change and makes it a whole new concept.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Seeing that I like almost everything we know rules-wise about 4e, but hate most of the flavour I heard about (especially FR), I'm groing concerned about 4e the more I like what I hear. All crunch and no fluff makes 4e a bad edition.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

From what I have seen so far, I really love the new mechanics and changes to gameplay in 4th ed.
But the flavor so far has disappointed me.
I do not like Tieflings as a core race (PC1: "yep, daddy was a bearded devil and what is with you?" PC2"No, my parents were fine. Granny was a succubus." PC3 "Really, what was her name? Because my Mommy was a succubus too" PC4 -mumbling- "And I play a Dwarf, Son of Dwarfs... that is boring...DM, let me change my race, want to play a Tiefling. My Characters' Daddy will be a PIT FIEND").

But is this the flavour they wrote so far about the Tiefling? Or is just what you infer?

What if Tieflings in D&D 4 are a race of humans that many millenia ago cooperated with devils to gain more power? Their infested themselves with demon blood to gain more personal power, but ultimately, that lead only to the demise of their empire. Today, the fiendish infusions are a remainder of a dark time, a scar that never healed, and was once might have been a sign of great power is now a sign of their failure and a sign of their moral weakness.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

What if Tieflings in D&D 4 are a race of humans that many millenia ago cooperated with devils to gain more power?

So,e WotC person blogged that what you said is what happens, basicallly...

 

[Klaus]

In amongst the changes that the D&D designers are making to 4e, I hope they remember that the "fluff" of D&D is actually quite important.

Flavour matters.

Now, this may seem rather stupid and obvious (and it may be) when you look at the arguments over the revealed changes on EN World, but I thought it'd be a good idea to look at one of the most mechanically sound books in late-3.5e, which got sunk by an ill-considered story surrounding it:

Magic of Incarnum

If you look at one of the other new system books of late 3.5e - Tome of Magic - you couldn't get a bigger difference in reaction. Tome of Magic is mechanically, a mess. My overall impression of the reaction on the boards to Tome of Magic was "great ideas, pity about the mechanics".

However, Magic of Incarnum has the other problem: great mechanics, but the story behind the system - drawing on the power of souls - didn't connect with many people. Heck, I don't really like it that much. And the alignment restrictions? Huh? Why are they there?

As a result, MoI didn't even get a chance to be looked at.

A new book gets looked at for story (flavour), and gets played repeatedly if it has good mechanics.

Honestly, most of the changes I'm seeing to the "story" of D&D really connect for me. Sure, it's not quite the "story" of previous editions... but that story changed several times anyway, depending on what edition it was.

However, for some core elements, if the "story" elements don't connect... watch out!

(That's my main fear with Tieflings being included; much like Warforged in Eberron. Or Gnomes.)

Cheers!

Agreed, Merric!

Heck, I am writing up stuff that is mostly 3.x with different fluff.

 

[BryonD]

Seeing that I like almost everything we know rules-wise about 4e, but hate most of the flavour I heard about (especially FR), I'm groing concerned about 4e the more I like what I hear. All crunch and no fluff makes 4e a bad edition.

I don't understand? How can you say you hate something and then say it isn't there?
(Seriously, I don't understand which point you mean.)

 

[Aloïsius]

From what I have seen so far, I really love the new mechanics and changes to gameplay in 4th ed.
But the flavor so far has disappointed me.
I do not like Tieflings as a core race (PC1: "yep, daddy was a bearded devil and what is with you?" PC2"No, my parents were fine. Granny was a succubus." PC3 "Really, what was her name? Because my Mommy was a succubus too" PC4 -mumbling- "And I play a Dwarf, Son of Dwarfs... that is boring...DM, let me change my race, want to play a Tiefling. My Characters' Daddy will be a PIT FIEND").
And I hate what I have heard so far of the new Hell and Abyss setting.

Obviously, you are confusing tiefling and cambions...

They put the tiefling in place of the gnomes because, for many players, a race of creature cursed by a very ancient (and most likely half-forgoten) evil is more interesting than some comic relief lawn ornament.
So, IMO, nothing about nany being a succubus or dad being a pit fiend. It's rather about beeing the last in a long line of tainted ancetry.

 

[Scribble]

Obviously, you are confusing tiefling and cambions...

They put the tiefling in place of the gnomes because, for many players, a race of creature cursed by a very ancient (and most likely half-forgoten) evil is more interesting than some comic relief lawn ornament.
So, IMO, nothing about nany being a succubus or dad being a pit fiend. It's rather about beeing the last in a long line of tainted ancetry.

There's a ton of stuff you can do with a tiefling background...

The noble's child cursed to be born with the soul of a fiend, left in the woods at birth...

A poor mother that curses her 13th born child and it comes out a devil (jersey devil...)

Even just forget the whole fiendish heritage thing and just say he was born "strange..."

Maybe A parent made a pact with a fiend for more power, and in exchange promised the soul of his firtborn to the creature... The firstborn is allowed to live his/her life but is forever marked with the pact...


shrug... Tons of stuff.

 

[Aloïsius]

There's a ton of stuff you can do with a tiefling background...

The noble's child cursed to be born with the soul of a fiend, left in the woods at birth...

A poor mother that curses her 13th born child and it comes out a devil (jersey devil...)

Even just forget the whole fiendish heritage thing and just say he was born "strange..."

Maybe A parent made a pact with a fiend for more power, and in exchange promised the soul of his firtborn to the creature... The firstborn is allowed to live his/her life but is forever marked with the pact...


shrug... Tons of stuff.

yup. We will see if WotC think about this... Anyway, a tiefling is not about "how kewl was my fiendish sire", because that would be an half-fiend, not a tiefling.

Note that this is the reason why I dislike the horns and tail look of 4e tiefling. I would rather see something more subtile.

 

[KarinsDad]

Flavour IS important. It's the main reason I've always liked psionics. 3E finally had a sound and balanced system but I didn't like the flavour as much as in 2E. And don't even get me started on the mess that was 'Complete Psionic'. This totally killed psionics for me - because of the totally wrong flavour. That wasn't all I disliked about it, but it was the worst offender.

I really hope 4E psionics will be as flavorful as they once were.

I am getting old.

I'm glad you posted this because it made me re-think this issue.

When 3E Psionics came out, I did not particularly like the flavor (I didn't hate it, I just thought it odd and meh) and the mechanics were so so, so it was so so for me. I never went out of my way to play a 3E psionic PC or only added one 3E psionic NPC in as DM.

When 3.5 Psionics came out, I was already used to the 3E flavor, so it was not a big jump. However, the mechanics were much better.

So, I like 3.5 Psionics, even though they were primarily based on the 3E Psionic flavor that I did not especially like.


I have a feeling 4E will do the same thing. I suspect the new flavor and artwork and such will be "meh" when it first comes out for me, but over time it will eventually grow on me and I will not even remember that it was meh.

This might also happen to other people. Once 4E comes out, it will generally just become accepted over time by the gaming community at large, regardless of flavor as long as the mechanics are good.


It's a bitch to get old and forget the passions of youth, even if that youth was only the previous year. :\