Flaw System (from UA)

[msd]

I was just reading about this in the current issue of Dragon. I don't own Unearthed Arcana so I wasn't aware of this (variant / additional) element of player creation.

Can anyoner give a brief description of the system and maybe some of the sample flaws. Does this work well in your experience?

Thanks,
matt

 

[wingsandsword]

Flaws are "anti-feats", you can choose up to two at 1st level, and for each one you take you can take an extra feat at 1st level.

They tend to have slightly stronger negatives than feats give as positives (imagine a feat that gives bonuses to something, now turn that bonus into a penalty and increase the penalty by 1/3), but there is room for min-maxing as you weaken things your character probably won't do as you take extra feats. They even have a "Behind the Curtain" sidebar in the section advising caution in game balance with them and in creating new ones.

Some examples of flaws:
Poor Reflexes: -3 to Reflex Saves
Unreactive: -6 to Initiative checks
Inattentive: -3 to Listen and Spot checks

Personally, I don't use them in my game because my entire group took one look at them and agreed that there was way too much min-max potential there. There is an alternate system in UA called "Traits" which is a related set of flaws and advantages as a joined set, like

Plucky: +1 to Will Saves, -1 to Fort saves
Nearsighted: +1 to Search, -1 to Spot
Honest: +1 to Diplomacy, -1 to Bluff

 

[Starman]

The key to flaws is to remember that they are flaws. If one of your players has taken a flaw that gives them a penalty on reflex saves, then make sure you are throwing things at them that force them to roll that reflex save. You don't want to overdue it, but you want to highlight it regularly. Presumably, the player has taken some feat that they use regularly, so you shouldn't feel bad about hitting that flaw. I would aim to highlight it once a session or so.

Starman

 

[Li Shenron]

(imagine a feat that gives bonuses to something, now turn that bonus into a penalty and increase the penalty by 1/3)

I think you meant by 1/2?

I disagree about the risk of min-maxing. As long as the flaw is in something reactive (a saving throw, armor class, hit points, initiative, spot & listen), the character is absolutely sure he's going to pay the cost, and repeatedly in a campaign.

Actually I think these would even be balanced without the +50%.

But the flaws on melee attacks and ranged attacks are indeed badly designed. It's very common to have characters who almost never make a melee attack (think most arcane casters) or a ranged attack (think tank warriors and several casters as well). Those penalties CAN be easily ignored by the right character.

I think min-maxing is much more encouraged by several UA Traits, the ones which give you the -1 on a skill for example (which you can ignore if you were not planning to use that skill). However it's not a big deal either, since Traits always give very small bonuses.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

When I looked at them I decided not to allow them because I was afraid of my players min/maxing too much, only one my players wanted to take them anyway and he always claims that he doesn't powergame . But I suppose if the DM worked in someway to make the persons flaw show at some point in the game it wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Li Shenron]

I suppose if the DM worked in someway to make the persons flaw show at some point in the game it wouldn't be a big deal.

Yeah, but it's pretty easy for a -3 in a ST to show off at some point IMXP! Think of how many times the players roll ST (or initiative, or spot/listen checks, etc.) every session...

 

[AeroDm]

Flaws IMX don't work very well in D&D because of how easy it is to ignore entire elements of the game. Wizards can take a penalty to attack rolls and then just stick to spells involving DCs for attack, while -6 initiative is terrible for a rogue it is nothing to someone who intended to delay anyways, and so on.

The World of Darkness flaws are very well done IMO. They are completely optional and are all RP based. If a player RPs their flaw in a manner which debilitates them, they get xp. If they routinely decide not to RP the flaw the DM alerts them that they have overcome it and they no longer have the option of gaining the benefit of the flaw.

You could replace the xp with other things (action points, treasure, RP benefits) at your leisure.