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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Flurry of Blows + Two Weapon Fighting?
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<blockquote data-quote="Errant" data-source="post: 1333342" data-attributes="member: 1926"><p>Thanks everyone for the responses, I would have replied sooner but I've been away a few days.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually I get the distinct impression that it is the designers intention that players be offered as many choices as possible in customizing their characters without (ideally) allowing them to be overpowered/unbalanced, but I was looking for what's allowed by the rules. Not whether Rule-0 is justified (a question for the House Rules forum I think) so I'd prefer to stick to the 3.5E rules here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmmm. Assuming light 2nd weapon...</p><p>L20 Monk FoB = +15/+15/+15/+10/+5</p><p>FoB, +TWF = +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, +13</p><p>FoB, +TWF +ITWF = +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, +13/+8</p><p>FoB, +TWF +ITWF +GTWF = +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, +13/+8/+3</p><p>That’s better than I thought but I think you're right.</p><p></p><p>In comparison a L20 Fighter would receive...</p><p>BAB = +20/+15/+10/+5</p><p>BAB, +TWF = +18/+13/+8/+3, +18</p><p>BAB, +TWF +ITWF = +18/+13/+8/+3, +18/+13</p><p>BAB, +TWF +ITWF +GTWF = +18/+13/+8/+3, +18/+13/+8</p><p></p><p>So the (pure) Monk gets one extra attack at +5 behind the Fighter. Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, so yes I'd allow it - if I can't find a definite rule disallowing it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think TWF applies for the same reason Camarath seems to. FoB & TWF (feats) all allow bonus attacks when using Full Attack Actions, & I've yet to find/see a rules reference that says they don't stack. </p><p></p><p>Having read the responses & done some more reading I noticed, that while the description of Monk's Unarmed Attacks says:</p><p></p><p><em>A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. <strong>There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. </strong> A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.</em></p><p></p><p>... the Combat II section of the SRD says:</p><p></p><p><em>TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING</em></p><p><em>If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. ...</em></p><p><em>•If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (<strong> An unarmed strike is always considered light </strong>.)</em></p><p></p><p>It seems to me the Combat section is clearly indicating that unarmed attacks should be treated as attacks with light weapons & either that contradicts the Unarmed Attacks description OR the later is merely an clarifies how the Monk's strength bonus applies to unarmed attacks. </p><p></p><p>Obviously FoB + the TWF chain can add a definite edge to his combat ability, but I'd think that would be expected from a 3-feat chain requiring a Dex of 19.</p><p></p><p>So far I don't see any rule that would prevent it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Errant, post: 1333342, member: 1926"] Thanks everyone for the responses, I would have replied sooner but I've been away a few days. Actually I get the distinct impression that it is the designers intention that players be offered as many choices as possible in customizing their characters without (ideally) allowing them to be overpowered/unbalanced, but I was looking for what's allowed by the rules. Not whether Rule-0 is justified (a question for the House Rules forum I think) so I'd prefer to stick to the 3.5E rules here. Hmmm. Assuming light 2nd weapon... L20 Monk FoB = +15/+15/+15/+10/+5 FoB, +TWF = +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, +13 FoB, +TWF +ITWF = +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, +13/+8 FoB, +TWF +ITWF +GTWF = +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, +13/+8/+3 That’s better than I thought but I think you're right. In comparison a L20 Fighter would receive... BAB = +20/+15/+10/+5 BAB, +TWF = +18/+13/+8/+3, +18 BAB, +TWF +ITWF = +18/+13/+8/+3, +18/+13 BAB, +TWF +ITWF +GTWF = +18/+13/+8/+3, +18/+13/+8 So the (pure) Monk gets one extra attack at +5 behind the Fighter. Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, so yes I'd allow it - if I can't find a definite rule disallowing it. I think TWF applies for the same reason Camarath seems to. FoB & TWF (feats) all allow bonus attacks when using Full Attack Actions, & I've yet to find/see a rules reference that says they don't stack. Having read the responses & done some more reading I noticed, that while the description of Monk's Unarmed Attacks says: [I]A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. [B]There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. [/B] A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.[/I] ... the Combat II section of the SRD says: [I]TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. ... •If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. ([B] An unarmed strike is always considered light [/B].)[/I] It seems to me the Combat section is clearly indicating that unarmed attacks should be treated as attacks with light weapons & either that contradicts the Unarmed Attacks description OR the later is merely an clarifies how the Monk's strength bonus applies to unarmed attacks. Obviously FoB + the TWF chain can add a definite edge to his combat ability, but I'd think that would be expected from a 3-feat chain requiring a Dex of 19. So far I don't see any rule that would prevent it. [/QUOTE]
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Flurry of Blows + Two Weapon Fighting?
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