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<blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 1174212" data-attributes="member: 111"><p>Okay, a rules-based reason:</p><p></p><p>Cleave states you use the <em><strong>same attack bonus</strong></em>, not the same <em>base attack bonus</em>. Technically, this would mean that variations in situational modifers (higher ground, etc.) would not apply. I agree, however, that they should apply, but, as the rule is quite clear, I'd restrict it to only those who <em>unquestionably</em> do not apply, like higher ground or the "Bane" property of a magic weapon.</p><p></p><p>My position is that because the Cleave feat actually states that you DO get to keep ALL attack modifiers, any modifers that would not apply (like "Bane") would be <em>by exception</em> to the Cleave rule, and, therefore, I would allow any modifer unless it had a <em>compelling</em> reason to deny it. Charge does not present a <em>compelling</em> reason to deny the +2 bonus when Cleaving at the end of a Charge.</p><p></p><p>Again, I would point out that this ONLY applies to the Charge attack bonus, any damage bonuses would not apply as Cleave does NOT give you the same damage bonuses as the blow that activated the feat.</p><p></p><p>Also, again, I would like to point out that both sides have a good, strong rules-based argument, so it's strictly a DM's decision.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Artoomis, post: 1174212, member: 111"] Okay, a rules-based reason: Cleave states you use the [i][b]same attack bonus[/b][/i][b][/b], not the same [i]base attack bonus[/i]. Technically, this would mean that variations in situational modifers (higher ground, etc.) would not apply. I agree, however, that they should apply, but, as the rule is quite clear, I'd restrict it to only those who [i]unquestionably[/i] do not apply, like higher ground or the "Bane" property of a magic weapon. My position is that because the Cleave feat actually states that you DO get to keep ALL attack modifiers, any modifers that would not apply (like "Bane") would be [i]by exception[/i] to the Cleave rule, and, therefore, I would allow any modifer unless it had a [i]compelling[/i] reason to deny it. Charge does not present a [i]compelling[/i] reason to deny the +2 bonus when Cleaving at the end of a Charge. Again, I would point out that this ONLY applies to the Charge attack bonus, any damage bonuses would not apply as Cleave does NOT give you the same damage bonuses as the blow that activated the feat. Also, again, I would like to point out that both sides have a good, strong rules-based argument, so it's strictly a DM's decision. [/QUOTE]
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