Flying Kick and druids

[Tar-Edhel]

Would I benefit from this feat, once wildshape in a tiger?

Flying Kick
(General)

You literally leap into battle, dealing devastating damage.
Prerequisites: Str 13+, Power Attack, Improved unarmed strike, Jump (4 ranks)
Benefits: When fighting unarmed and using the charge action, you deal double damage with your unarmed attack.

Wilshaped as a tiger, I would be considered having the Imp. Unarmed strike, right?

 

[youspoonybard]

Nope.

 

[MarauderX]

I thought that critters with 'natural' attacks (not using a weapon) were assumed to have the feat, but I'm not so sure either.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

Nope.

Could you elaborate?

Nope, animals are not considered having IUA or nope, a tiger wouldn't benefit from that feat?

Or both?

 

[nimisgod]

Would I benefit from this feat, once wildshape in a tiger?

Flying Kick
(General)

You literally leap into battle, dealing devastating damage.
Prerequisites: Str 13+, Power Attack, Improved unarmed strike, Jump (4 ranks)
Benefits: When fighting unarmed and using the charge action, you deal double damage with your unarmed attack.

Wilshaped as a tiger, I would be considered having the Imp. Unarmed strike, right?

IMC, Yes. just change the words Flying Kick to Devastating Charge since the imagery doesn't seem to fit. By my reckoning though, it looks legal (like Coup De grace with a CLW, so that might be in question, too)

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm waiting for the "So can I get double damage on every attack in a Pounce?" question...

-Hyp.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

I'm waiting for the "So can I get double damage on every attack in a Pounce?" question...

That's exactly the point, obviously.

Nimisgod, you allowed it in your campaign. Is it overpowered? It does smell cheesy...

 

[Hypersmurf]

IMC, I would certainly rule that, regardless of Pounce effects, Cleave effects, or the like, only the first attack ever receives Charge-dependent bonuses.

+2 on the first attack roll, not on any extra attacks that are allowed in conjunction with the Charge for whatever reason. Doubled (tripled, quadrupled, or whatever stacking multiplier you can eke out of a charge) damage on the first attack only. Once that first attack hits, you're no longer in motion, and no Charge-dependent benefits are applicable.

While the letter of the rules could be debated and - in the case of Flying Kick, at least - quite possibly supports the "every attack" interpretation more strongly, I'd have no hesitation in saying "No way" in my game.

-Hyp.

 

[youspoonybard]

Having a natural weapon is not the same as having Improved Unarmed Strike.

 

[FrankTrollman]

In 3rd edition the answer was definately yes. No questions asked, natural weapons were a subset of unarmed attacks and thus you could flying kick with all of your pounce attacks together.

In 3.5 the answer is a lot muddier - as Natural Weapons are sometimes listed as a form of Unarmed Attack, and sometimes Unarmed Attacks are listed as a form of Natural Weapon. The dependency - and thus the applicability of the feat - is completely up in the air.

It all comes down to how unarmed rules apply to natural weapons - and that has contradictory answers in the 3.5 rulebook. It also has contradictory answers coming out of custserv and the Sage.

As to whether this is balanced - that depends upon oyur game. Certainly you can do similar things as a Cavalier with Spirited Charge and Full Mounted Attack, or as a Singh Ranger - or as a Druid who casts Lion's Pounce on his friends (or himself). If you for some reason thought that any of those were unbalanced - you'd have to nerf all of them as the effects aren't even particularly different.

IMC, I would certainly rule that, regardless of Pounce effects, Cleave effects, or the like, only the first attack ever receives Charge-dependent bonuses.

There is no support, at all, for this "ruling". So much so that this isn't even a ruling - it's a house rule nerf of the charge bonuses. I've seen charge-fighters in action - I've played charge-fighters. It's nasty - but taking Cleave away from them nerfs them into uselessness.

Fighters need Cleave to live. It's not a "realistic" feat - but as long as Wizards keep being able to cast the same spells on more enemies with better save DCs - Fighters need to have their Cleave Attacks. Really.

-Frank