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<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 9020084" data-attributes="member: 6777737"><p>Overall, I've found that it's largely not a problem. It seems like it should be, but in the end it nearly always isn't an issue. I've seen a few instances where flying was really useful, but in the aggregate, it really hasn't been much better than having a character with Athletics proficiency and a rope.</p><p></p><p>In general, most flying races have some inherent limitations on natural flight. Several flying PC races have to use their arms to maintain flight, meaning they can't use ranged weapons or cast spells. However, the real limitation is that basically nobody with winged flight has hover while naturally flying. That's potentially a significant limitation.</p><p></p><p>The first key to remember is that flying makes you a huge target. You can't easily hide, and you have no cover and little concealment. In most cases, flying is incredibly dangerous because it's very much not subtle. Think how often you notice flying insects compared to those on the ground, or birds in the air compared to those in the trees. You're exposed when you're flying.</p><p></p><p>It can be obnoxious in situations where the NPCs don't have any ranged weapons, but I just haven't seen that that is a big issue very often.</p><p></p><p>IMO, my biggest dissatisfaction isn't the balance of it. It's the realism. There are <em>no</em> rules on the aeronautical limitations of nonmagical flight. Like this is all it says for fly speeds for players:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And this is it for monsters:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well... how far do they have to move forward to maintain level flight if they can't hover? How quickly can they turn? How quickly can they climb or descend? How much room do they need for their wings? Earlier editions had rules just for this. Yeah, <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#tableManeuverability" target="_blank">the 3e maneuverability chart sucked</a>, but what do we get instead in 5e? <em>Nothing</em>. The game almost treats it like everything has old-school perfect maneuverability. It's frustrating just how little guidance there is here. It's definitely simple, but it's also pretty dumb.</p><p></p><p>A strict reading says that all hover does is prevent you from falling if you're knocked prone or incapacitated, but in the past we've ruled otherwise and basically made people average maneuverability. That's significantly more restrictive than the RAW for flight, but I liked it a lot better.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 9020084, member: 6777737"] Overall, I've found that it's largely not a problem. It seems like it should be, but in the end it nearly always isn't an issue. I've seen a few instances where flying was really useful, but in the aggregate, it really hasn't been much better than having a character with Athletics proficiency and a rope. In general, most flying races have some inherent limitations on natural flight. Several flying PC races have to use their arms to maintain flight, meaning they can't use ranged weapons or cast spells. However, the real limitation is that basically nobody with winged flight has hover while naturally flying. That's potentially a significant limitation. The first key to remember is that flying makes you a huge target. You can't easily hide, and you have no cover and little concealment. In most cases, flying is incredibly dangerous because it's very much not subtle. Think how often you notice flying insects compared to those on the ground, or birds in the air compared to those in the trees. You're exposed when you're flying. It can be obnoxious in situations where the NPCs don't have any ranged weapons, but I just haven't seen that that is a big issue very often. IMO, my biggest dissatisfaction isn't the balance of it. It's the realism. There are [I]no[/I] rules on the aeronautical limitations of nonmagical flight. Like this is all it says for fly speeds for players: And this is it for monsters: Well... how far do they have to move forward to maintain level flight if they can't hover? How quickly can they turn? How quickly can they climb or descend? How much room do they need for their wings? Earlier editions had rules just for this. Yeah, [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#tableManeuverability']the 3e maneuverability chart sucked[/URL], but what do we get instead in 5e? [I]Nothing[/I]. The game almost treats it like everything has old-school perfect maneuverability. It's frustrating just how little guidance there is here. It's definitely simple, but it's also pretty dumb. A strict reading says that all hover does is prevent you from falling if you're knocked prone or incapacitated, but in the past we've ruled otherwise and basically made people average maneuverability. That's significantly more restrictive than the RAW for flight, but I liked it a lot better. [/QUOTE]
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