Flying without Magic in D&D, or, Your Favorite Non-Pass/Fail System

[GMMichael]

Having just finished the Ultimate Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, it occurred to me that there is a way to fly in D&D without using magic, wings, spells, a boarding pass, or any of that other nonsense. You just have to throw yourself at the ground. And miss. If you fail to hit the ground, the logical outcome is that you must be flying. As Douglas Adams notes, once flying, it's best not to pay too much attention to the fact, and definitely don't touch or concentrate on anything that's very heavy.

By regulation, it would go like this: declare your intent to hit the ground. This is a Very Easy task, with a DC of 5. You'll probably want to use your worst ability for the attempt, and it would help if you didn't keep re-rolling during character creation until all of your abilities were above 9. Next, you'll need Disadvantage. In the Guide, this is accomplished by having something nearby distract you from your goal. Or you could remember something important or odd as a distraction, just before hitting the ground. With a bit of luck, your total will be 4 or less, you'll fail to hit the ground, and technically be flying afterward. Try a swoop or two, but don't think too much about it.

Absurd, isn't it?

That's what can happen when you play with pass/fail systems. Rarely are things so black and white that pass/fail will describe a helpful outcome. A major application of this is dealing damage - not in-game, but in-rules. The rules say that you roll damage when you pass, and you don't when you fail. But that doesn't tell you much about what happens in-game (because what happens in-game isn't black and white).

For example, a Fail in Dungeon World isn't the end of a check. It's the GM's invitation to make a Move against you - something interesting that happens beyond simple failure. Or Genesys colors its pass/fails with advantages, threats, triumphs, and despairs, if you have a little patience.

Do you use a non-pass/fail system? Does it allow for spontaneous character flight?

 

[Shiroiken]

I guess it depends on the system you use. For example, in 5E D&D it's explictly stated that the order of operation is as follows:

1) DM describes the situation.
2) Player decides a course of action
3) DM considers the probability of success and narrates results
3a) if the success of the action is considered impossible or automatic, no roll is made
3b) if the success of the action is in doubt, a roll is determined and a DC set

In the example of hitting the ground, you'd just hit the ground. Conversely, if you wanted to jump to the moon, you'd just hop around. I think 5E is the only game system I've seen explicitly state this, but most games indicate that the GM has final say on all things. Since most GMs aren't idiots, nonsense like this isn't allowed.

 

[atanakar]

^
This !

 

[LordEntrails]

Really weak argument for trying to dis 5E.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Really weak argument for trying to dis 5E.

Or 3e or 4e or even Pathfinder. It's not all about 5e, you know.

 

[LordEntrails]

Or 3e or 4e or even Pathfinder. It's not all about 5e, you know.

Agreed, or anything similar to OD&D

 

[Ovinomancer]

Agreed, or anything similar to OD&D

OD&D had a really mushy systems for "skills". It was, however, also binary, so that's in common.

I think you've missed what the OP was going for, which wasn't denigrating D&D games but instead trying to explore a different approach to skills. It's one I find most useful for my 5e game, as well, as I tend to use fail forward or success with cost on a failure rather than the 'no progress' baseline of the 'you fail' baseline often imported from 3e. Binary skill systems really put a lot of overhead load on a GM to avoid dead-ends due to dice rolls. Heck, the game goes ahead and puts the entirety of the skill system on the GM's back on page 6 of the PHB. If you're up for that, it's cool. Obviously, two years into my latest campaign and having run almost since release I don't have a huge problem with it, but it is one of those 'barriers' to new GMs.

On the other hand, there are a number of other skill systems that work to reduce GM overhead and they're worth talking about. I'm not a fan of the fiddly dice symbols ones -- they work just fine but I prefer clear stake setting and those require post hoc staking based on roll results. I'm very fond of systems that build in success with cost as the most common result and have failures involving the GM complicating the situation rather than blocking progress.

 

[Umbran]

Do you use a non-pass/fail system? Does it allow for spontaneous character flight?

Occasionally. And not generally.

But, then, whe I use Pass/Fail systems, I remember that before engagintg the system there's a GM filter of, "Do we need to roll for this? Is the result somehow uncertain?" on all declared actions, preventing absurdity when I don't want absurdity.

 

[LordEntrails]

I think you've missed what the OP was going for

Very possible.

 

[GMMichael]

1) DM describes the situation.
2) Player decides a course of action
3) DM considers the probability of success and narrates results
3a) if the success of the action is considered impossible or automatic, no roll is made
3b) if the success of the action is in doubt, a roll is determined and a DC set

In the example of hitting the ground, you'd just hit the ground. Conversely, if you wanted to jump to the moon, you'd just hop around. I think 5E is the only game system I've seen explicitly state this, but most games indicate that the GM has final say on all things. Since most GMs aren't idiots, nonsense like this isn't allowed.

there's a GM filter of, "Do we need to roll for this? Is the result somehow uncertain?"

There is that. In theory. But given the number of times I've seen amateur and professional DMs answer "do I see/hear that" with "roll Perception," I'd say that a PC has a pretty good shot at getting to make the miss-the-ground roll.

Also, as I say: "absurd," but a D&D setting has magic. Deities that don't hide behind faith. Talking, flying, giant lizards. Bards. The Baldur's Gate 3 trailer. It's not outside the realm of possibility to miss the ground.

Come to think of it, that's not even a "dis," @LordEntrails. D&D is full to the parapets of absurdity. Shouldn't its Core Mechanic support such things? Half of the name of the game is absurd

Half of the title of the thread, though, is: your favorite non-pass/fail system.