Fooling players who have memorized the MM

[Land Outcast]

I like your dire rat example GreatLemur, think I'll steal it for my next game!

Then you'll like the link I posted [reposting]
General - Alternative Monsters: Different Fluff, Same Crunch
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=106339

 

[Wik]

You know, I feel the OP's plight.

Way back in my 2e days, I had a gamer who really KNEW the Monster Manuals. All of 'em. It's why he played D&D. And I mean he KNEW the MMs... THAC0, AC, and all. It got pretty bad when I'd throw a few orcs at the group, and he'd have everything about them memorized.

So, I threw a bunch of crocodiles (and giant crocodiles) at the group... and was surprised to see him tell the group: a) their AC. b) The amount of damage they can do. c) Their movement ratings.

Yeah, it was a bit of a surprise... PCs that memorize Monster Books suck.

***

Anyways, a few ideas that haven't already been mentioned -

1) Templates. You can always add one that sufficiently changes the monster around. A Half-Dragon Vampire, for example, is completely different from a Fiendish Vampire, for example.

2) Similarly, class levels. You can even fiddle with things a bit, so that things are ALMOST class levels, but not. For example, that troll sorcerer, rather than being strictly a sorcerer, actually just has a few extra spell-like abilities. No one likes a Hasted Troll.

3) Find monsters online, or in odd sources. I know that means you're breaking away from the Monster Manual, but that's okay. You can still be "traditional" while doing it. For example, I'm sure there are at least a dozen fan-made versions of LOTR Orcs kicking around out there... one of them might even be good. There are a hundred ways to stat up an ogre, and still be "traditional". I'd love to see the look on your players' faces when they say "hey, it's just an orge... CR 3" and then realize they're facing the equivalent of a hill giant.

4) Strange terrain. Monsters in a fight scene where the environment plays an important role can keep the PCs looking away from Monster Stats. For example, fighting two Barghests is a pretty predictable encounter. Fighting those same Barghests during a hurricane is something entirely different.

 

[Quartz]

Instead of making it an albino red drgon, you could make it a white dragon that's used a cantrip to colour itself red.

 

[Land Outcast]

And who uses "Breath Weapon Energy Substitution" until someone casts protection from cold

 

[robberbaron]

PCs that memorize Monster Books suck.

If I had a player like that EVERYTHING I threw at the party would be either my own creation or significantly different to MM.

Actually, I think the other players would smack him down pretty quickly. No-one likes a smart arse.

 

[Plane Sailing]

You know, I feel the OP's plight.

Way back in my 2e days, I had a gamer who really KNEW the Monster Manuals. All of 'em. It's why he played D&D. And I mean he KNEW the MMs... THAC0, AC, and all. It got pretty bad when I'd throw a few orcs at the group, and he'd have everything about them memorized.

So, I threw a bunch of crocodiles (and giant crocodiles) at the group... and was surprised to see him tell the group: a) their AC. b) The amount of damage they can do. c) Their movement ratings.

Yeah, it was a bit of a surprise... PCs that memorize Monster Books suck.

That sounds like a serious player problem to me - whether a player knows some/all/nothing about a creature, they should try to play their PC with only the in-character knowledge they should have.

Sometimes it's fun as a player for the PC to guess what a creatures name is from its description, and I don't see much harm in that - but reeling off the stats and automatically knowing the best way to tackle such creatures just doesn't seem right to me.

Cheers

 

[Flynn]

That sounds like a serious player problem to me - whether a player knows some/all/nothing about a creature, they should try to play their PC with only the in-character knowledge they should have.

Sometimes it's fun as a player for the PC to guess what a creatures name is from its description, and I don't see much harm in that - but reeling off the stats and automatically knowing the best way to tackle such creatures just doesn't seem right to me.

Cheers

I had a player like that (and I enjoyed gaming with him, too), but I have a habit of picking up OGL monster books and then never calling a monster by name, only describing it. Sometimes, I would even make up monsters that fit a particular concept and scenario, just to have my own stats on the table. My friend would often comment on the three or four possible creatures he thought it might be from WOTC, and then add something like "And you know Flynn. You never can tell..." or "Damn you and your OGL books!"

But he enjoyed the game all the more for it, because it gave him challenges that he wasn't quite prepared for...

Another friend of mine runs games where everything has at least one template and at least one class level. Made for some very messed up encounters, but it definitely was challenging.

Hope This Helps,
Flynn

 

[Vahktang]

I always liked the idea (contact) once told me about - a hydra where each head has the power of a beholder eyestalk.

oooh, fun.

I'm that guy.
I'm the one that knows every monster.
But my character doesn't.
So:
"Somebody keep an eye on what hurts it.
"Ranger, silver arrows, rogue, cold iron. Fighter go in and fight defensively.
"War mage, start in on lesser orbs, alphabetically.

 

[jasin]

I once used an alzabo, from Gene Wolfe's The Book of New Sun. It's a big predator which can mimic the voices and access the memories of those whose brains it eats.

Mechanically, it was just a dire wolf who could use the voice of a girl it had eaten, so that her mother opened the door to the cottage where she and the PCs were spending the night (the whole scene pretty much straight out of Wolfe).

So the fight was no more or less difficult than "... and as you're walking through the woods, a dire wolf appears, roll init", but it was rather more creepy and memorable.

 

[Atavar]

I heard a story once about a group of adventurers who were preparing to hunt a dragon. An NPC told them that it was a white dragon, so they prepared to defend against cold and fight with fire.

What they didn't realize was that the guy said "wight" dragon, not "white" dragon. It was a red dragon that was turned into a wight.

And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Later,

Atavar