[FoP] Heartwarden?

[Malcer]

One member of our gaming group took the Heartwarden prestige class from Faith and Pantheons. He interpreted the class as requiring to be only a sorcerer with Sune as patron and is happily gaining Charisma increases, which the prestige class provides, as he is gaining in levels.

Though the requirements list that you only need to be able to cast 3rd level spells, I think that it is necessary to be a cleric of Sune as well. (At least one level cleric of Sune because of what is being said in the second paragraph of the flavor text.)

Well, considering the huge amount of Charisma increase that the prestige class provides you with, I strongly suspect that there will be Errata which changes the requirement from 3rd level spells to 3rd level divine spells.

Before I start a probably heated argument with my fellow gamer, I'd like to get some feedback whether I have interpreted that correctly and how other groups have dealt with that class.

Thanks a lot!

 

[ruleslawyer]

From F&P:

"...other class combinations, including enchanter, are not unknown."

This strongly implies that enchanter specialist wizards can take this class; if that's the case, why not sorcerers?

To be honest, I don't think that the Heartwarder is an absurdly powerful PrC, even for a sorcerer. Keep in mind that the Charisma bonus is an inherent bonus, and as such could be acquired by spending 137,500 gp on a Tome of Leadership or a similar amount on wish scrolls. The only advantages that the heartwarder confers over other given PrCs to a sorcerer are the two good saves and medium BAB, the latter of which isn't necessarily that important to a sorc. If you think that the heartwarder's abilities are too powerful for a sorcerer, require that the character be able to cast spells from the Charm domain; that'll require the sorc to lose at least one caster level by taking a level of cleric.

 

[Chun-tzu]

I agree with ruleslawyer. By the book, arcane casters have no problem taking the class, and I don't think the Heartwarden is particularly broken, considering other prestige classes like the Incantatrix, Red Wizard, Archmage, and Doomguide. But if you want to tone it down a bit, that's the DM's call. If I were the player, I'd much rather have the option to take a toned down version of the PrC than to have it banned completely.

 

[HeavyG]

By the book, arcane casters have no problem taking the class

Well, it does require three pretty subpar feats for a sorcerer : Exotic weapon : Whip, Dodge and Mobility.

Also, it requires 6 ranks in a cross-class skill, so you couldn't take it until 9th level.

That makes it far from overpowered, IMO.

 

[Malcer]

9th level!

Thank you for your comments.

I think that if you compare the class to Archmage and Red Wizard, it's even moderate, but we've never played with those classes in our group in first place.

But I am pretty sure that my fellow gamer started the class earlier than he should have been able to. At 12th level, he is a sorcerer/heartwarden 6./6., which should be impossible barring even feats like Cosmopolitan from FC, which he could not take since he needs that many prequisite feats for the class.

 

[HeavyG]

Re: 9th level!

But I am pretty sure that my fellow gamer started the class earlier than he should have been able to. At 12th level, he is a sorcerer/heartwarden 6./6., which should be impossible barring even feats like Cosmopolitan from FC, which he could not take since he needs that many prequisite feats for the class.

Right, as far as I can tell, the absolute earliest a pure sorcerer could take the class would be after sor9. Or you could do it after sor6/bard1, if you wanted to. This would let you up your diplomacy quickly AND provide the whip proficiency for free.

BTW, the dude who decided that Heartwardens would need the Whip proficiency needs to be whipped himself. And not in a kinky way.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Perhaps he's using Monte Cook's variant Sorcerer from Book of Eldritch Might II, which has Diplomacy as a class skill. Then he could become a Heartwarden at 7th level without any problems.

 

[Victim]

Well, the whip is Sune's favored weapon, IIRC. But requiring a (relatively useless) weapon proficiency for a caster class is mean.

Also, the sorcerer could have Cosmopolitan, but that just increases the feat burden.

 

[Malcer]

Diplomacy 6 ranks

I just talked to the guy and asked him about how he was able to start at 7th level with the Heartwarden. He told me that he struck a deal with our DM, which made Diplomacy a class skill for his sorcerer. Well, you can't argue with a DM decision, so I guess, it's legal as far as our group is concerned.

 

[Malcer]

Double post