for the "core only" purists - availability of PrCs by class

[Altalazar]

Ditto for me.

DMG page 176: "Prestige classes are purely optional and always under the purview of the DM."

Quasqueton

Rule 0: Everything in the rules is purely optional and under the purview of the DM.

That doesn't change the fact that you are using less than the core-rules. Let me put it this way, if someone says they were playing a 'core-rules' campaign, that does not mean 'sans PrC'.

 

[Altalazar]

That's like saying that if you don't have a player character of every possible class and race combination in your game, then you're not playing with the core rules. I think 'core only' means 'using only rules from the core books' not 'using every single rule in the core books'. Note that the core rules provide options - and options are, by definition, optional

Ok, that's just silly. There is a difference between a campaign where PrC are allowed (as per the core rules) but no one choses to play one and a campaign where PrC are removed from the rules as an option.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Rule 0: Everything in the rules is purely optional and under the purview of the DM.

That doesn't change the fact that you are using less than the core-rules. Let me put it this way, if someone says they were playing a 'core-rules' campaign, that does not mean 'sans PrC'.

Nope, I'm afraid that's not true. I personally think that playing core-rules only is quite silly, but none of the optional rules presented in the DMG needs to be included, and in fact, you could argue that it cannot be included. Defense rolls are listed in the DMG as an optional rule, but I don't see anyone saying you need to use those to be playing core-only...

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Nope, I'm afraid that's not true. I personally think that playing core-rules only is quite silly, but none of the optional rules presented in the DMG needs to be included, and in fact, you could argue that it cannot be included. Defense rolls are listed in the DMG as an optional rule, but I don't see anyone saying you need to use those to be playing core-only...

Damn, beat me to it...

 

[Altalazar]

Nope, I'm afraid that's not true. I personally think that playing core-rules only is quite silly, but none of the optional rules presented in the DMG needs to be included, and in fact, you could argue that it cannot be included. Defense rolls are listed in the DMG as an optional rule, but I don't see anyone saying you need to use those to be playing core-only...

I'd still call it misleading to say only that you have a 'core rules only' game and then find out later that it also has no PrC.

In other words:

Core rules only game - means all the core rules, including PrC
Core rules only game minus Prestige Classes - means all core rules except PrC

Etc.

 

[jdrakeh]

Ok, that's just silly.

I know, but that's exactly the kind of absurd comparison you're making where PrCs are concerned. You're saying that because they're in the book, they must be used, and if they aren't, then you're not playing with the core rules but some bastardized custom rule set. And that is silly.

There is a difference between a campaign where PrC are allowed (as per the core rules)

PrCs are presented purely as an option per the core rules - they aren't allowed or disallowed by default, rather that choice is left up to the individual DM (note that somebody further up the thread even took the time to quote this verbatim from the rule book). Again, options are... uhm... optional.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'd still call it misleading to say only that you have a 'core rules only' game and then find out later that it also has no PrC.

In other words:

Core rules only game - means all the core rules, including PrC
Core rules only game minus Prestige Classes - means all core rules except PrC

Etc.

You quoted my reply, but you haven't addressed it.

Why are you singling out PrCs?

There are other variant rules in the DMG that needn't be included to call something 'core-rules' :

Roll Initiative Each Round
Sapient Mounts
Striking the Cover
Non-Automatic Hits and Misses
Defense Roll
Weapon Equivalencies
Damage to Areas
Clobbered
Massive Damage Based on Size
Instant Kill
Softer Criticals
Critical Fumbles
Skills with Different Abilities
Critical Skill Success/Failure
Saves with Different Abilities
Spell Roll
Power Components
Summoning Specific Monsters
Free-form XP
Faster or Slower XP
And Many More!

 

[Quasqueton]

Rule 0: Everything in the rules is purely optional and under the purview of the DM.

I'm sorry, but can you give me a page number where this rule is stated? I don't seem to have that sentence in my books.

Quasqueton

 

[Kahuna Burger]

You may be interpreting the core PRCs a little too literally (or not literally enough?). Druids can be Hierophants, Horizon Walkers, and Mystic Theurges, Monks make good Shadowdancers, etc. Maybe try going back over these PRCs and look at them from the perspective of the skills and feats that are prerequisite rather than what "seems" to be the right class to come into the PRC with. Barbarian/Bard Eldritch Knights? Why not?

Um, because it doesn't have rage, bardic music, bardic knowlege, perform , survival or the skill ranks of either?

if you are asking if you can qualify for the eldritch knight prestige class through bard/bararian sure, but the class doesn't by any stretch of the imagination continue the concept. I'm looking at them just fine, don't worry.

 

[maggot]

Then you are not running core - you are running a custom set of rules removing part of the core of the game. Which is fine, but then that is not a 'core-only' game, it is something less.

Core-only, not core-exactly. You only need the 3 core books, but we do not use all of the optional rules.

And not something less, we actually find this an addition by subtraction.