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For those who played HARP, tell me about it

Turanil

First Post
Perusing the Internet, I got a look at the HARP rpg. Seems like an interesting old-school flavor type of rpg, with some flexibility in character creation, yet archetypal races and classes. However, reading reviews is one thing, reading about experiences with that game is another. So, could you tell me about your HARP games? (I could have asked on ICE boards, but wanted to hear somewhat more neutral opinions, even if there is probably very few people interested in HARP on ENworld...)
 

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Aus_Snow

First Post
Not sure, personally, but there was a thread on RPGnet not so long ago. . . ah yes, here.

Also, you might be surprised. At least, there used to be a few HARP players around here (all bards must die. . . :uhoh: what?) - the only reason I can think of that they mightn't be present now, is all the 4e. . . stuff flooding the site. That, and associated dramuh of course.
 

der_kluge

Adventurer
I love HARP - up until the combat system.

I ran HARP at a game day. I really like the system, and have many of the books.

The character creation is a thing of utmost beauty. Everything is a skill - including spells. So, if you put more ranks into "fireball" you can do more with the spell, like increase its damage, increase its duration, increase the required save, etc. Each spell has different things that you can do with it once you increase it. Some spells make little sense to increase, like Knock - once you can open locks, there's little reason to be amazing at that. So, while some spells perform great with just the minimum number of ranks, others really shine when you dump a lot of points into them.

This is cool because wizards end up only knowing a handful of spells - they'll be really good (and deadly) with their trademark spells, and they'll probably have a small ensemble of utility spells that they know at the most basic level.

Furthermore, you can create a fighter who knows a little bit of magic. Or, maybe a rogue who can actually cast knock himself, so he can devote points into other skills. It's extremely versatile. Additionally, you can forego EVERYTHING in lieu of arcane power. So, as a wizard, you could completely forego things like hit points (hits is a skill in HARP), saving throws (also skills), your ability to dodge stuff or even hit the broadside of a barn with a quarterstaff - all for more and more mana points. In d20 terms, this would be akin to making a 20th level wizard with +0 to all his savings throws, 4+con hit points, and a +0 BAB. You could do that in HARP. I don't recommend it, but it's cool that it lets you do that.

Also in HARP, races get great treatment, and you can make a seafaring dwarf, and get appropriate modifiers because of that, or a urban gnome, or whatever.

Character creation takes a lot longer, because you can really min-max your character, but you end up with an extremely customized character.

Where HARP really falters, IMHO, is the combat system. If you like Rolemaster's system, you'll like HARP. Everything is a table. So, if you cast a lightning bolt, or use a bludgeoning weapon - each of those have a table. You roll your skill check (yes, you roll a check when you cast a spell), and you check the chart to determine the outcome. The outcome might be great - your spell might work twice as effectively, or it could fizzle in your face. Characters in HARP also end up becoming "Stunned" which means they get penalties when hit, and all-in-all, combat is much more lethal, and much more complex.

I really like d20's - you hit, roll damage kind of system. It's fast and simple. One of the Harper's Bazaar issues, Rasyr (the author) actually tried creating a system (specifically for me, in fact) that replicated d20's combat system using HARP rules. So, you might check out all the older issues of Harper's Bazaar if you look into it.

HARP Lite is probably still available as a free PDF, so check it out - it gives you all the basic rules.
 

TGryph

Explorer
When my group got tired of D&D 3.5 and was looking for a different system, we chose HARP. We played it bi-weekly for a year, then decided it wasn't working for us.

As was stated, everything but combat was great - chargen (which to be honest, like Gurps, was intensive but fun). Spell casting was wonderful, and running it was a breeze for me as GM.

But combat was the dealbreaker. We got really tired of having to consult a chart EVERY TIME someone got hit in combat. And see if this sounds like fun to you...

"Lets see....my Longsword Skill is at 93%. I am going to hold back 20% to Parry. I am flanking, so I add another 20%, he is wearing leather armor and takes off 15%, his parry is at 26%, so now I roll..I got a 42 on my roll...(sound of fingers flying over calculator). Ok...what is a 94 on the One Handed Cutting Weapon Chart?


Now I KNOW that is not exact ( I don't have my PDF's open), but you get the idea. That being said, Rasyr is one of the best supporters of a game I have ever seen online, and ICE has always been great to deal with. Rasyr has even made differnt types of combat systems, which also unfortunately didn't click for my players. Personally, I really liked everything about the game except the combat, which my group could just not get around, so we dropped it for Gurps.


IN a nutshell...if the combat works for you, and you don't mind a lot of basic adding and subtracting in the game ( I bought all of my players calculators from the local Dollar Store before we even started and that helped), AND you don't mind referring to charts constantly, it is a great game.

TGryph
 

Turanil

First Post
der_kluge said:
I really like d20's - you hit, roll damage kind of system. It's fast and simple. One of the Harper's Bazaar issues, Rasyr (the author) actually tried creating a system (specifically for me, in fact) that replicated d20's combat system using HARP rules. So, you might check out all the older issues of Harper's Bazaar if you look into it.
Sounds great, I will try to find that. Thanks.
 

AnthonyRoberson

First Post
Turanil said:
Sounds great, I will try to find that. Thanks.

There is also an optional 'life point' system in the HARP core rulebook that doesn't use the hit tables. There are so many things that I like about HARP, including:

- scalable spells
- playable with only the core rulebok
- system is very flexible, but still feels 'complete'
- lots of goodies available on the HARP website, including an automated Excel character sheet.
- a responsive online community
- ...lots of other stuff.

...I almost forgot. You can also download a FREE 98-page PDF version of the rules (that is remarkably complete) from the HARP website to try out! Also, every rulebook is also available in PDF at only 50% (I think) of the cost of the dead tree version.
 
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Henry

Autoexreginated
I've played it all of once, but own the core book and its PDF, and read it pretty thoroughly about two years back.

It's a neat system - it manages to be botjh class-based and skill-based at the same time, kind of a mix of D&D and GURPS in terms of spirit, though not mechanics. For me, it's too complex with too many "fiddly bits", but for gamers looking for LOTS of customization with their characters, it matches 3e D&D for that regard. Its flavor, in terms of magic items, look and presentation, hearken back to Second Edition AD&D for me. I'm on record in some quote by Tim Dugger as saying, "It does D&D better than D&D does." :) And that's true - it keeps some of the quirkiness and charm that 3E removed, and 4E has restored for me.
 

3catcircus

Adventurer
HARP - Love Love Love it!

As others have said, the base combat system can be a bit clunky in comparison to d20, but if you really think about it, combat is technically no different than d20. The difference is that in d20, the tables are upfront during character creation (the whole BAB portion of the advancement table).

In HARP, you do the following:

1. roll d% - if 96-00, roll again (adding to the result) until you stop rolling higher than 96 - it is open-ended.

2. Add your offensive bonuses (no different than in D&D when you add things for Power Attack, magical bonuses, etc.)

3. Subtract your enemy's defensive bonuses (this is different than d20 only in that the DM doesn't add it to the enemy's AC instead).

4. The key difference in combat is that the damage is somewhat fixed. , but there are plenty of options (Martial Law, free third party options, etc.)
 

Turanil

First Post
Well, you entice me to look more thoroughly at it. Now, I read here about combat being complicated, and maybe this game being rule heavy. This is my bad point. On the other hand, everything else you say makes this game apparently extremely interesting.
 

Treebore

First Post
I really like the HARP magic system. I was thinking of carrying it over to my C&C game, but I wasn't willing to do even that degree of extra book keeping.

Definitely take a look, if nothing else I bet you'll find ideas worth taking.
 

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