Force Effects (My Players Avoid, please)

[WizarDru]

Force Cage is similar to a Wall of Force, in that it blocks a bunch of magical effects, correct?

Could it be used defensively? That is to say, I'm a high-powered Demon Lord, for example, and I don't want to bother fighting while my minions swarm over my enemies (let's say, I dunno...a party of PCs ). Would surrounding myself with a windowless force cage prove an effective defense? Yes, it can be disintigrated and teleported into, etc....but it stops most other effects, correct?

How does it interact with things like scrying? Would a Force Cage become a form of anti-scrying technology?

 

[Nail]

Force Cage is similar to a Wall of Force, in that it blocks a bunch of magical effects, correct?

It blocks Line of Effect. It does not block Line of Sight. That's a key distinction

Could it be used defensively?

Sure. See my recent thread about our Psion hiding in a Telekinetic sphere and using the Burrowing Power feat to blast at enemies at will. It's effective....although I'm not sure a Demon Lord would get as much use out of it.

...but it stops most other effects, correct?

That is to say, you can't target those within the windowless Forcecube with a spell effect while you are outside the cube........mostly.

How does it interact with things like scrying? Would a Force Cage become a form of anti-scrying technology?

No. You could still scry within, since that spell does not require Line of Effect.

 

[WizarDru]

It blocks Line of Effect. It does not block Line of Sight. That's a key distinction

[Nods.]

Got it. A Gaze Attack can pass through it, and a Scry attempt would succeed because (ignoring saves) because it doesn't have to be INSIDE the force cage to function, correct?

Is Force Cube the PHB name? In the SRD, it's Forcecage, Windowless Cell version.

 

[Nail]

Forcecage, windowless cell variety. My bad.

I'm just still feeling the burn from that Psion incident I mentioned. It's addled my brain.

So....why, by all that's unholy, does a demon lord need a defensive Forcecage? (And do his minions yell "Chicken! Brrrrrrooock, brrrrrooock!" => AFAIK, Force stops sound too, so the Demon Lord would be clueless without a read lips check.)

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[KarinsDad]

Forcecage, windowless cell variety. My bad.

I'm just still feeling the burn from that Psion incident I mentioned. It's addled my brain.

So....why, by all that's unholy, does a demon lord need a defensive Forcecage? (And do his minions yell "Chicken! Brrrrrrooock, brrrrrooock!" => AFAIK, Force stops sound too, so the Demon Lord would be clueless without a read lips check.)

Inquiring minds want to know.

Demon Lords do not care about their minions.

A Demon Lord behind a Forcecage watching his minions swarm the PCs is like you watching WWF wrestling on TV from the comfort of your living room. It's just pure entertainment.

 

[Nail]

True. (Although wouldn't Clairvoyance or scrying be a better analogy?)

I guess I'm thinking the Demon Lord might also want to participate, even if in only a small way......kinda like I'd like to throw a chair at one of the wrestlers in WWF.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Note that the demon lord might not fit. Some demons wouldn't fit (e.g. glabrezu, nalfeshnee).

Gaze Attack can pass through it...

There's nothing that says that a gaze attack does not require line of effect. There's an exception that gaze attacks can reach into the ethereal plane, but not that it will pass through force or whatever.

 

[Nail]

There's nothing that says that a gaze attack does not require line of effect. There's an exception that gaze attacks can reach into the ethereal plane, but not that it will pass through force or whatever.

Not true.

Wall of Force
.....Gaze attacks can operate through a wall of force.

 

[Nail]

One might assume that since Forcecage uses language like "similar to a wall of force spell" in a few places, we can use the rules of the Wall of Force spell to adjudicate some effects, like Gaze attacks.

Moreover, gaze attacks explicitly call out requirements for sight, implying line of sight is required. It says nothing about line of effect.

 

[WizarDru]

Forcecage, windowless cell variety. My bad.

I'm just still feeling the burn from that Psion incident I mentioned. It's addled my brain.

So....why, by all that's unholy, does a demon lord need a defensive Forcecage? (And do his minions yell "Chicken! Brrrrrrooock, brrrrrooock!" => AFAIK, Force stops sound too, so the Demon Lord would be clueless without a read lips check.)

Inquiring minds want to know.

KarinsDad has the right of it. Having defeated a rogue demi-god last week, the players are most likely to turn their attention to some major tasks that were on the 'nearly as important' list. One is to reseal the prison of dread Tharizdun before it gets any shakier. The other is to hunt down three extremely powerful Yugoloth assassins called the Khrel Hr'dad who are running loose on the Prime.

I could have them enter directly into single combat with each one, but I'd rather they have to fight their way through their demonic armies, first. Understand that the Yugoloths are CR28-33, so the players will need to wade their way through some advanced Balors, Mariliths and a few swarms of dretches at the very least. Having the Yugoloth simply turtle-up and order his minions to attack allows the players to flex some muscle and makes him the final boss, not just someone they bypass all the other monsters to get to.