Force Effects (My Players Avoid, please)

[Infiniti2000]

One might assume that since Forcecage uses language like "similar to a wall of force spell" in a few places, we can use the rules of the Wall of Force spell to adjudicate some effects, like Gaze attacks.

Sure, as long as you selectively choose which properties you want to use, like ignoring the fact that walls of force cannot be horizontal.

Moreover, gaze attacks explicitly call out requirements for sight, implying line of sight is required. It says nothing about line of effect.

Implying, yes. Stating, no. For example, do you have line of sight through a clairvoyance spell? Does that mean you can be affected by a medusa's gaze attack through it?

 

[LordVyreth]

KarinsDad has the right of it. Having defeated a rogue demi-god last week, the players are most likely to turn their attention to some major tasks that were on the 'nearly as important' list. One is to reseal the prison of dread Tharizdun before it gets any shakier. The other is to hunt down three extremely powerful Yugoloth assassins called the Khrel Hr'dad who are running loose on the Prime.

I could have them enter directly into single combat with each one, but I'd rather they have to fight their way through their demonic armies, first. Understand that the Yugoloths are CR28-33, so the players will need to wade their way through some advanced Balors, Mariliths and a few swarms of dretches at the very least. Having the Yugoloth simply turtle-up and order his minions to attack allows the players to flex some muscle and makes him the final boss, not just someone they bypass all the other monsters to get to.

Oh, now I'm really eager for this Story Hour recap, since I made at least one of those CR28-33 guys for you! Though I suspect your PCs might not be willing to sludge through the enemies. They might just use disintegrate/teleport to get to the BBEG. What about the self-Maze strategy again?

 

[Nail]

Sure, as long as you selectively choose which properties you want to use, like ignoring the fact that walls of force cannot be horizontal.

If the text says "similar to", and then also explains that some of the surfaces are horizontal, does that imply that we use none of the propoerties of the similar spell? Of course not. We use all that are applicable. Being vertical obviously isn't.

In any event, I was responding to your claim that Gaze Attacks don't pass thru force. They clearly can.

For example, do you have line of sight through a clairvoyance spell? Does that mean you can be affected by a medusa's gaze attack through it?

Again, I'd fall back on the spell decription:

Clairaudience/Clairvoyance:
......Unlike other scrying spells, this spell does not allow magically or supernaturally enhanced senses to work through it.

Since such senses don't work, it's reasonable (but not iron-clad certain) that a medusa's gaze attack can't pass thru the sensor.

And even if it could:

Gaze (Su): A gaze special attack takes effect when opponents look at the creature’s eyes.

You can't very well see the Medusa's eyes while she's looking at you through an invisible magical sensor, can you?

 

[Nail]

Having the Yugoloth simply turtle-up and order his minions to attack allows the players to flex some muscle and makes him the final boss, not just someone they bypass all the other monsters to get to.

Cool!

Time to read that storyhour, I think......

 

[Nail]

.......wait a minute! Yer jus' trolling for storyhour readers, aren't ye?

Sneaky little.....

 

[WizarDru]

.......wait a minute! Yer jus' trolling for storyhour readers, aren't ye?

Sneaky little.....

Heh. It's game-day, and this stuff gets tougher when one of your pc has become a hero-god. I need all the help I can get, as LV can tell you. Besides which, if we don't have readers now, after about 5 years of story-hour, we ain't getting 'em.

These particular showdowns have been coming for some time. And believe me, when 6 26th level characters decide to bring it....oh, it's BRUNG. As for the self-Maze technique...that's a weapon of last resort, and the Yugoloth probably wouldn't choose to do it, it's too cowardly a move for any of them. These are guys that Balors tread lightly around. Further, jumping into a maze would violate his mission and worse, sacrifice his 'soul costume' that keeps him safe from the Outcast restrictions that currently exist on the Prime in my game.

 

[Infiniti2000]

In any event, I was responding to your claim that Gaze Attacks don't pass thru force. They clearly can.

I know, sorry, I was only referring to forcecage at the time. The confusion was my fault.

And even if it could:You can't very well see the Medusa's eyes while she's looking at you through an invisible magical sensor, can you?

Well, I think you can see the medusa's eyes and, more importantly, she doesn't need to look at you. However, chances are that you are not within 30ft, but does the distance limitation apply to the distance from the medusa to the sensor or between the real-world distance from the medusa to you (likely much larger than 30ft)?

Do you allow gaze attacks to function through a resilient sphere (or telekinetic sphere) or does "Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out..." mean no?

 

[Nail]

Yeah....good question.

For the resilient sphere, I place more emphasis on the sentence: "A globe of shimmering force encloses a creature, ...", rather than on the sentence "Nothing can pass through the sphere,....".

Yup => a completely arbitrary call....but I hope one based on self-consistancy within the rules. It makes more sense (YMMV, obviously) that all of the spells/powers that invoke "force walls" behave similarly.

Besides, the language of the Resilient Sphere, spell looks remarkably like an abbreviated form of the language of the Wall of Force spell, nicht wahr?

Ah well. Feel free to parse the text of Resilient Sphere as you like, as it is far more vague than Forcecage.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Fwiw, I rule that gaze passes through all Force effects, and through sensors and the like (using the range as modified from sensor to source). However, I also decided that creatures like medusas will kept their gaze turned off much of the time. Especially if they have lots of underlings.

 

[Nail]

.. I also decided that creatures like medusas will kept their gaze turned off much of the time. Especially if they have lots of underlings.

And petrified underlings are....."less able" to perform their duties!

For me, I like the "flavor" of requiring that the opponents meet the medusa's gaze, i.e. see her eyes.

Eyes are a powerful motiff.

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