Forceball and Forcebolt

[Dagger75]

I have a lich in my game who has been harassing the party for the last 5 levels. The group is epic so they got some pretty nice stuff. Also they have a 21st level druid in the group. 9th level spell is invulnarability to all elements.

Now this lich is tired of them getting that spell up and most of her spells are now useless. She made 2 new spells.

Forceball- Just like fireball only does force damage.

Forcebolt- Just like lighning bolt only does force damage.

Now what level should these spells be, 6th, 7th, 8th? I am partial to 7th, but is there hard fast rules for spell creation. My tomb and blood is still packed up somewhere.

Do these spells seem 2 overpowered? Would shield protect you from them, if sheild up only take 1/2 damage then roll a save?

Just some thoughts I had.

 

[Jeph]

Seem okay. Afterall, you have damaging Force spells that are lv. 1. 3 or 4 extra levels makes it more than fare (although at that level, the max damage would be 20d, which is important).

 

[jlhorner1974]

Compare it to existing spells.

If you consider Horrid Wilting, an 8th level spell that can do 25d8, does dehydration damage that bypasses elemental resistances, and also has a comparatively large area it can affect (any number of creatures, no two of which are more than 60 ft apart). Your two force spells are clearly less powerful than that if they do d6 per level in damage.

If you consider Delayed Blast Fireball, the damage is the same and so is the AoE. The only difference is the delaying factor vs. using force damage instead of the more easily resisted fire damage. This may not be an exactly equal tradeoff, but it's close enough.

Also, keep in mind the suggested damage caps. 6th and 7th level spells are supposed to do 20 dice max, while 8th and 9th level spells can do 25.

I would make them both 7th level spells, 8th if you want to allow the higher damage cap (25 dice).

 

[RogerBacon]

Just take the base 3rd level and modify it as per energy substitution. If you want it to do more damage than a fireball use energy substitution AND energy admixture.

If you think its too powerful you could say the damage is all physical, like the shockwave from a bomb. In that case DR would apply against it.

Roger Bacon

 

[jlhorner1974]

It's not the same as Energy Substitution. Energy Substitution (even Sonic, which almost no creatures are immune/resistant to) is less powerful than force damage.

Any energy type you change it to using Energy Substitution can be protected against by Endure/Resist Elements. I can't think of any spell or item that protects against force effects.

Also, force effects extend into the Ethereal plane and affect incorporeal creatures normally.

Therefore, spells that do force damage should be higher level than those that do regular elemental damage.

Magic missile is a bit of an exception since it is a signature 1st level D&D spell.

I would decide what you want the dice damage cap to be and choose a spell level based on that, modifying the level as appropriate.

 

[Hygric]

I'd suggest leaving them at 3rd but dropping the damage die down to a D4.

 

[Destil]

I'd suggest leaving them at 3rd but dropping the damage die down to a D4.

Agreed. 3rd with a d4 or a reflex save to negate, rather than for half, or 4th-5th (depending on the max dice damage you want).