Forgotten Realms vs. Greyhawk

[tsadkiel]

GH being the default setting rather than FR is a good thing, and it has nothing to do with the level of detail or overall quality of either setting.

The Forgotten Realms are different from regular D&D in a number of ways. The elves are different. The dwarves are different. Even the basic nature of magic has changed - there's no direct divine control over the fabric of magic in default D&D, and the effects of the change are pretty wide-ranging.

 

[heimdall]

Another thing to consider is how much they might have to include in the core books had they made FR the default setting. Keep in mind the gods write-ups in the PHB. Albeit it's not a whole lot but if you don't have a well-defined pantheon, you've got something. In the gaming group I'm in now, the DM has adopted the GH gods because they're easy and already available and put them into his own world. Look at the sheer number of gods (Faith and Pantheons, anyone) in FR, and I don't think they wanted to get into all of that. It can get fairly complex.

 

[Aaron L]

You are aware, yes, that Greyhawk was the setting for 1E, and one of the goals for 3E was to entice 1E players back who had abandoned D&D during 2E?


That being said, I like both settings equally.

 

[teitan]

Greyhawk is getting a bit of a shaft, it is supposed to be the setting of the generic adventures and supplements, but outside of god names the adventures are not very Greyhawkish. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil on the other hand...

FR was the official setting of 2E, Dragon Magazine said as much during their prep for 2E material, though the issue number eludes me and I no longer have my archive dating from 1987-98 when I got out of roleplaying after the disappointment of the Greyhawk returns material. Everything was being developed with the Realms in mind and they didn't go setting nuts until about 92 with Dark Sun and then Planescape and then Birthright and then Mystara and the abortion that was the Tales of the Lance boxed set. Sigh. Oh yeah, Ravenloft and then revised boxed sets of Dark SUn and Ravenloft and then the Ravenloft Hardcover and then the revised FR boxed set (still lacking basic priest information) blah blah blah. But before Dark Sun, EVERYTHING just about was FR. Sure they did some support of GH, they made it their dark fantasy setting with the Fiends and focus on Iuz and it failed for a reason.

The sourcebooks were great, full of wonderful information etc but the meta plot was the problem. Greyhawk is great fro those DMs who like to create their own details. Greyhawk should get support like Kalamar, adventures that you can play through but are also easily ignored because the only evil that was Earth shattering was Iuz and he was in check through the manipulations of the Circle of 8. Then the whole thing with Rary was just upsetting.

In other words, From the Ashes failed because it was an attempt to make GH like the Realms. Greyhawk doesn't have Uber PCs, it is not populated with superheroes. It is more like Leiber than Greenwood.

Jason

 

[WizarDru]

And, for the billionth time, why is GH VS. FR? They are different settings with different appeals. There is no 'better', per se.


Greyhawk, as Aaron points out, was where everything in 1e took place...for the most part. Most of the modules could easily be set anywhere, and the Barrier Peaks could easily be ANY mountains...by design. EGG stated that he wanted Greyhawk to be very DM-customizable and campaign-specific. My version is not his version is not someone else's version. Even using the same modules and locations. Returning gamers, like me, liked having familiar Greyhawk on hand.

Forgotten Realms is a much more detailed setting, and truthfully it is a variant D&D setting, even though it is the most popular. As tskadiel points out, there are variant races there (read: NON-OGL), concepts like the Shadow-weave and spell-fire, and lots of things that are non-standard.

I would argue that more D&D gamers are familiar with ELEMENTS of Greyhawk than FR, but as settings go, FR is the most familiar. Everyone knows Otto's Irresistible Dance, the Eye of Vecna or Tenser's Transformation, even if they don't know who those guys actually are.

 

[Erekose]

I just wish WotC would produce some 3.5E products for Greyhawks of the same quality as the FR offerings!

I avoided FR in 2E like the plague - I was young and loyal to Greyhawks - however, having bought a fair few of the new FR books they are certainly well thought out and immaculately produced.

 

[grodog]

I steal lots of ideas for my Greyhawk game from a variety of sources, including other game settings (FR, Spelljammer, Lankhmar, Sanctuary), as well as other game systems (Ars Magica, Warhammer FRP), and a wide-variety of non-gaming sources (fiction, movies, history, etc., etc., etc.).

That said, though, like Erekose, I wish that Greyhawk was truly being supported by WotC---or by some dedicated 3rd party publisher filled to the gills with Greyhawk grognards, who would probably do a much better job anyway