Forked Thread: How difficult are 3.xE characters to create?

[Shades of Green]

Forked from: I played 4E today. I died.

I've read these kinds of complaints about D&D3 character generation, but I still don't understand what takes so long.

Well, actually, I do know what takes so long: tweaking. I've seen people create, ready for play, a mid-level D&D3 character in 10 minutes, and then spend hours over the following week tweaking it to perfectly fit their concept.

The tweaking is a crucial part of character generation. I could probably create a random Fighter in 10 minutes or something. But he would neither be "optimized" enough for your average Age of Worms campaign, nor interesting enough. Once I'd consider PrCs, things get worse.

So, how difficult do you think 3.xE character creation was, and for what reasons?

Personally, I think that the more splat-books you had in your game, the longer character creation took, both due to the number of available options and to the need to plan out the character in advance to these options. Do you think that reducing the number of books used with the game (or even going with the three core-books and that's it) would reduce the character creation difficulty, or even the play difficulty?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

One of the bigger time-sinks for me seems to be setting up fulfilling feat and prestige class prerequisites. That requires a lot of careful deliberation, especially if you want to take PrCs early or have a certain feat chain in mind.

Spell Selection is also always a time-sink. Either you have a lot of options, or you must be very careful about your selection to not leave any holes.

Splat Books definitely will cause all these steps to take longer (edition and game independent - creating a Shadowrun character with access to the newest cyberware sourcebook will take longer then creating one with just the core rules).

 

[jensun]

After class, PRC and feat choices the biggest time sink I found was always choosing gear.

If you were starting at higher level, especially if you were a caster with crafting feats and even more so if you were making custom stuff gear choice could take ages.

 

[Protagonist]

I actually found creating 3.5 1st level characters nearly as time consuming as higher level chars due to what mustrum r. said. Seeing as retraining rules appeared rather late and due to the fact that the prc system is very unforgiving regarding requirements I spent hours wondering how long the campaign will actually last (so that I don't invest into junk feats only to get into a cool prc that I won't be able to play due to campaign death) or simply to decide which feats/skills I need for the next 5-15 levels. Planning a first level character - to me - meant planning a 10th level character with first level gear.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

After class, PRC and feat choices the biggest time sink I found was always choosing gear.

If you were starting at higher level, especially if you were a caster with crafting feats and even more so if you were making custom stuff gear choice could take ages.

Oh yes, I forgot gear choice. That could get excessive, since you wanted to get all the stat-boosters and AC boosters that exist, and then also some "interesting" stuff - something to supplement your specific build, cover a weakness, get a fly ability or a speed boost.

 

[S'mon]

I never grokked the idea that the DM should allow whatever splatbook a player turned up with. In my current campaign PCs are created usually PHB only, currently 1st level, and I'd say they take around 10-15 minutes to create, depending on the player. That includes die rolls and skill selection. I guess if I had an 18" stack of splatbooks on the table and said "Go through that and make whatever you like", it could take hours.

Edit: I run the game at a club and there are new players every week, so it's very important that chargen not take more than about 20 minutes before we start play. Players who aren't familiar with the rules get a pregenerated Fighter, Sorcerer, Rogue or Cleric.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I never grokked the idea that the DM should allow whatever splatbook a player turned up with.

It never bothered me, unless it was really broken. Personally, I often kept closed to the core, but even that could give me loads of options that bogged down character creation once I had to consider magical items or spell selection.

 

[Orryn Emrys]

I really don't have any problems with splat-book usage in character design, but in any time-sensitive situation that doesn't extend to handing a player a pile of extra resources and suggesting that they pour through them looking for ideas. If a player comes to me with an idea from a splatbook, and I find the idea acceptable for the campaign, I'll allow it... and character generation generally won't take too long because they already know what they need to before we even get started.

 

[S'mon]

I really don't have any problems with splat-book usage in character design, but in any time-sensitive situation that doesn't extend to handing a player a pile of extra resources and suggesting that they pour through them looking for ideas. If a player comes to me with an idea from a splatbook, and I find the idea acceptable for the campaign, I'll allow it... and character generation generally won't take too long because they already know what they need to before we even get started.

Yes, my rule for the club game is "Generally PHB only, but if there's something you want from a splatbook that (a) fits the setting and (b) is no more powerful than the PHB classes, I'll allow it". (b) Deters most powergamers, especially as I reserve the right to nerf anything that does later turn out to be more powerful than the PHB stuff. So far only 1 non-PHB PC out of around 16 PCs; a Spirit Shaman from Complete Divine (I believe), who seems roughly on par with a PHB Cleric.

 

[amethal]

Choosing gear can take a very long time, if that's what you want to spend your time doing.

It doesn't interest me much, so if I'm creating a high level character I simply stick to the "big six" or something akin to them. Takes next to no time, and you can be sure your character will be adequately equipped.

As for feats and such, normally when I am designing a character I choose the mechanics first so I've a pretty good idea what feats etc. I will be picking.

I imagine if you start with a "blank canvas" and look for the "best" feats then it can take forever.