Forked Thread: Is ENWorld an accurate cross section of gamers?

[Treebore]

Not precisely true, which is part of the point.

Clearly, the folks here are "RPG gamers with an interest in D&D". However, if we are in some way unlike other RPG gamers with an interest in D&D, the results you get asking questions here will not simply generalize to all RPG gamers with an interest in D&D.



Half true. Yes, choosing to answer the questions is a form of self selection. However, that is not the only form of selection going on. Basically, the EN World population is doubly selected on such a poll - once for being the type of person who answers polls, and once for being the type of person who comes and reads EN World enough to see the poll.

That's two filters that might introduce bias in the results, rather than just one.

How we are "unlike" doesn't matter in a poll here any more than it does in any other poll. Everyone is not "like" each other to some degree in every poll ever made. What matters in this poll is that we are RPGers who have given 3e and 4e a look.

As to your second point of also being the type to come to ENWorld, so what? How do you think that invalidates our opinions? IT doesn't. It is not a confound. IF it is you may as well disqualify us for being the "types that play RPG's". Being the "type that comes to ENWorld" is just another type of demographic, like what job field do you work in? Far from a disqualification.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Although GW's teen-oriented approach to Warhammer Battle seems to work for them ok.

Heh. You're a Brit, so I assume you've actually had the pleasure of visiting a Games Workshop store?

It doesn't matter how old I am, how informed I am about the product, how completely sure I am of my purchase-- they want to sell the latest kewl army to me, and they want to engage me with the marketing patois of a 10-year old kid with attention deficit disorder.

Makes me want to take a claw hammer to the lot of 'em.

 

[BryonD]

ENWorld does not represent gamers very well.
ENWorld represents D&D gamers very slightly better than gamers over all, but still not well.
ENWorld represents D&D DMs marginally well, but still far from great.
ENWorld represents heavily involved D&D DMs fairly well.

As such ENWorld is not very useful for any quantitative data, but makes a quite reasonably reliable qualitative barometer of the D&D marketplace.

 

[Treebore]

ENWorld does not represent gamers very well.
ENWorld represents D&D gamers very slightly better than gamers over all, but still not well.
ENWorld represents D&D DMs marginally well, but still far from great.
ENWorld represents heavily involved D&D DMs fairly well.

As such ENWorld is not very useful for any quantitative data, but makes a quite reasonably reliable qualitative barometer of the D&D marketplace.

Tell me, what are your qualifications to tell us these are facts? Do you have two years intensive experience in statistical analysis? Do you have 21 college credit hours in statistics and statistical analysis? I already know the answer due to your inaccurate statements, but I am interested in what you have to say.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Older, and more GMs. We're an important demographic because we have lots of money that we can and often do spend on RPGs. So the average D&D player may be a 15 year old high school student, but they ain't got the spending power of the average ENW-er.

Although GW's teen-oriented approach to Warhammer Battle seems to work for them ok.

Teenagers actually tend to have a lot of disposable income, because they're old enough to get a job, but their parents generally still pay the bills.

 

[Silver Moon]

Tell me, what are your qualifications to tell us these are facts? Do you have two years intensive experience in statistical analysis? Do you have 21 college credit hours in statistics and statistical analysis?

He may not, but I do, I even teach college level classes in statistical analysis. While it is not scientific and would never quality for a peer-reviewed conference or paper, I feel that this statement of his is rather accurate:

ENWorld represents heavily involved D&D DMs fairly well.

My basis? Six year of regular participation on this board.

 

[Treebore]

He may not, but I do, I even teach college level classes in statistical analysis. While it is not scientific and would never quality for a peer-reviewed conference or paper, I feel that this statement of his is rather accurate:

ENWorld represents heavily involved D&D DMs fairly well.

My basis? Six year of regular participation on this board.

So, professor, are you saying that is a good thing or a bad thing? He seems to indicate that is a bad thing. Which isn't. If anything you, and he, are saying "experts" are being polled here, which is a good thing.

In other words, he seems to be saying good data cannot be collected here, when it can.

So what are you saying?

 

[Silver Moon]

So what are you saying?

Only that I concur with one of his conclusions.

As for this message board being useable as an accurate tool for academic research, I believe that it has been used at least twice in the past for that purpose. Honestly, I'm not sure that it would be anymore inaccurate than surveying a classroom of undergraduate or graduate students, which is how a large proportion of academic research is currently done.

 

[mearls]

One of the hardest parts of making commercial RPG stuff is trying to figure out what's actually going on out there with the audience.

If you look at the entire history of the RPG industry, you'll see the same, long, sad story: a mountain of conventional wisdom, usually backed by selective listening, that leads to a long chain of failed games and bad ideas.

It's easy to listen to a subset of people, particularly when they are saying what you want to hear, and use that as the basis for business decisions. The Internet only magnifies this - it's the place where people go to find likeminded people.

IME, absent the ability to read minds, the best way to get a fuzzy, maybe useful picture is to rely on as many data sources as possible. However, the most important data sources - especially for games, movies, and other forms of entertainment - are usually those that involve observing what people are doing rather than asking them what they want or what they're doing.

 

[helium3]

If anything, I find that ENWorld tends to be more pedantic and tiresome than most other gaming related forums. They're all tiresome in their own way, but at least for me, ENWorld manages to do it in a way that's particularly grating.

Oh, and good job on the finishing move, Mearls.