Forked Thread: Noone buffs, Dispel magic scrolls suck

[Hussar]

I find the quotes in the OP to be VERY suspect. 1 in 10 encounters has any pre-buff? I'm sorry, but I flat out don't believe it. Unless your wizard never cast Mage Armor, you're just wrong. Heroes Feast becomes the standard as soon as it's available in any game I've played. In 3e, all the animal buffs were cast routinely at the beginning of the day.

Why are your PC's getting surprised so much? Don't they ever scout?

 

[roguerouge]

Scouting in DnD modules tends to go: success, success, success, insta-kill. And those successes are usually: Yep, there's a monster there.

 

[Hussar]

Given the huge number of spying type spells - arcane eye, clairavoyance, etc, - not to mention simply mundane scouting, I find it strange that parties get surprised very often.

Very much not my experience.

 

[Hereticus]

Given the huge number of spying type spells - arcane eye, clairavoyance, etc, - not to mention simply mundane scouting, I find it strange that parties get surprised very often.

Unless the monsters or bad buys have the same level of magic to use against the characters.

They can cast illusions, use invisibility or dimension door, or swoop out of a rope trick too.

 

[Hussar]

Unless the monsters or bad buys have the same level of magic to use against the characters.

They can cast illusions, use invisibility or dimension door, or swoop out of a rope trick too.

Yes, becuase every adventure you go into has high level enemy wizards on call 24/7.

Show me three modules where this is true.

 

[Hereticus]

I wrote: "They can cast illusions, use invisibility or dimension door, or swoop out of a rope trick too."

Yes, becuase every adventure you go into has high level enemy wizards on call 24/7.

The spells I mentioned were levels 1, 2, 4 & 2. Not really "high level".

Show me three modules where this is true.

I guess you are probably correct if you only look at modules, but I made no mention of modules.

You stated...

Very much not my experience.

Well, I state my experience too.

Modules aside, how am I wrong?

 

[Hussar]

I would say that you are wrong because, other than a very, very small subset of opponents (namely wizards/sorcerers) no one can actually use illusions/rope tricks etc to surprise the party.

Now, if your campaign features wizard opponents with almost every adventure, that's fine and dandy, but, do you really think that's a widespread phenonmenon? When you said,

Unless the monsters or bad buys have the same level of magic to use against the characters.

They can cast illusions, use invisibility or dimension door, or swoop out of a rope trick too.

I assumed you meant an event that happens fairly regularly. While that might be true in your campaigns, I do not think its particularly true over all.

 

[Hereticus]

Unless the monsters or bad buys have the same level of magic to use against the characters.

They can cast illusions, use invisibility or dimension door, or swoop out of a rope trick too.

I would say that you are wrong because, other than a very, very small subset of opponents (namely wizards/sorcerers) no one can actually use illusions/rope tricks etc to surprise the party.

Now, if your campaign features wizard opponents with almost every adventure, that's fine and dandy, but, do you really think that's a widespread phenonmenon? When you said [see above]

I assumed you meant an event that happens fairly regularly. While that might be true in your campaigns, I do not think its particularly true over all.

I can't speak for other campaigns that I was not involved in, I can speak for those I was. Weather we were fighting drow, githyanki, demons, devils, evil cults, dragons, etc, there was always magic involved. Sometimes the spells were cast from memory, sometimes scrolls, potions and items were used.

Does that make my experiences unique, or perhaps just rare?

I just sent you a PM, I hope not to turn this into a disagreement, but the exchange of ideas that I intended.

 

[Hereticus]

Here is an example of an encounter from three years ago...

Our party of six characters (7th level) was ambushed by three humanoid cultists (same level) while trying to cross a river on a wooden ferry. In the surprise round (they had silent illusion up) their wizard hit three of us on the far side of the river with a fireball while the fighter and rogue fired arrows. The next round they hit those on the raft with a fireball, causing the horses to jump overboard with the wagon. I gathered my two associates who were still on land and dimension doored to the other side (I usually played a wizard). They had done used the same spell, escaping.

I guessed that they used dimension door and then rope trick to hide, which turned out to be correct. We made a circle the estimated size of of their dimension door spell, and eventually found the spot they arrived at. We waited out their rope trick spell, and killed them when they came out of it.

This type of encounter was not rare for me or the groups I played in. Magic was used heavily by the players, and by the DM for the opponents we fought. Our groups were almost always half or more spell caster.

Maybe that made our group unique, and maybe other players had similar experiences. I don't know.

That was a well prepared ambush that killed off our horses and destroyed our wagon of supplies. The DM was surprised that we found and killed his NPCs... He had intended to have them continue following us.

 

[Noumenon]

eventually found the spot they arrived at.

Track skill? Some kind of divination?

Here's what my party's encounters look like at 7th level -- "two monstrous scorpions approach. You kill them. Here is a giant with a sack full of centipedes. Here are a bunch of araneas casting ray of enervation."