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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4512234" data-attributes="member: 63763">At the same time, there wasn't much for fighters to do to BE sticky in previous editions. You could specialize in grappling or tripping. That was pretty much it in terms of tying up a foe. Sure, being next to someone limited their options somewhat because they'd have to provoke to get away from you unless it was 5-foot stepping [which you could get to them again] or they could withdraw. Still, if you weren't lightly armored, most people could outmove you, so the extremely tank-y fighter with high armor ... couldn't move very fast and it was hard for him to be sticky. The fighter is different. He gained powers in exchange for others. He may not out damage the rogue, unless he's actually getting his multiple attacks per turn [now in the form of OAs and Interupts instead of iterative attacks]. The benefit is that they have a dual purpose ... they can dish out a respectible ammount of damage [the fighter is the go to guy for commander's strike, unless the rogue didn't hit with his sneak attack, or the barbarian shows up] and the opponent either does what the fighter says, or ignores him and the fighter gets to do striker damage. Just so I can be clear, is your argument that nothing should every change between editions? Or, what exactly? And, in the Martial book, there is the berserking fighter that gets even more extra damage as long as he has temp HP [which involves getting hit in close combat, or using a power and not getting shot up from range ... not hard things to do if the fighter is doing his job by getting into close combat and making himself a nuisance]. The berserking fighter is probably going to be very close to the barbarian as a "striker/defender" hybrid. Also, one thing that may have been neglected, fighters [at the moment at least] have the weapon talent thing. This means that, outside of a rogue with a dagger, the fighter has a 5% greater chance of hitting than an equally strong paladin or ranger with their weapon. The damage they deal on a hit may be lower, but their chances of hitting are greater, increasing their damage output. The chances of hitting with OAs are even greater [assuming you don't dump wisdom], making that damage likely better than the paladin's divine challenge.</blockquote>

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