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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4513172" data-attributes="member: 2011">Who cares if they exist if they will almost never be used?Be honest here. What percentage of the time does anyone here cast a cantrip in combat. Be truthful. Unless someone comes up with a niche trick (like Plane Sailing did in the other thread, but that one would not be used in the H series adventures and is dependent on how DMs set up their adventures), they really won't be used often.That was not what was misleading. It was good that you pointed that out. What was misleading is your 50% statement.If a PC is fifth level and has 6 spells and the last one is a Daily Utility, that spell can only be cast once per day. That will typically be far from 16.7% of the spells cast. People look at your chart and see "Ohhh 50%, that's a lot".It will be closer to 2% to 5% of the time (in the 5th level Daily Utility case), depending on how many spells and which ones are cast on a given day. That's a very tiny percentage of the time.~3% of the spells cast at 5th level on any given day will be non-damaging ones. Not the 45% of your chart. Not the 9% of your chart.This is what is misleading. The number of utility spells out of number of spells itself is a totally meaningless statistic. It inflates the percentage of how many of each can be cast in any given situation on any given day. It tells you how many cards you will have of each (if one uses cards for their spells/powers), not how much variety it gives the caster in a given day.It's at the core of this thread.Why is magic non-special? Because everyone has it. A power is just another name for a spell. Even the monsters have powers (i.e. spells).Why is combat repetitive? Because 90+% of spells cast are not just damaging, but the same spells used over and over and over again.Take 5th level. Most Encounters are: Encounter, At Will, At Will, Encounter, At Will, At Will, At Will, At Will, etc. A few Encounters and a boatload of At Wills, and all of these spells are damaging spells. zzzzzzOccassionally, a Wizard will throw in one of his 2 Daily Attack powers or his Daily Utility power.But most rounds are At Will except for a potential two rounds of Encounter (which are not always cast either, depending on situation).It's repetitive. Ditto for all of the other PCs at the table.It's very similar to what running Fighters and Rogues was in 3E. Least common denominator.EXACTLY.That is a main point of this thread.First level. 4 cantrips. 95+% of situations, if the player casts them in combat, his friends will throw dice at him.Sure, he has the option. But, what good is the option if it will almost never be used in combat?Great, the Wizard took Jump. Woo hoo. It is an Encounter power, but will he use it every encounter? Of course not. My Wizard took Shield and he does not even use that every encounter.That's the issue. Sure the Wizard has some options (as your chart illustrates), but they are SO limited that most combats feel the same. And, it's not just Wizards. It's Fighters and Rogues and everyone else. The reason we talk about Wizards and Clerics is that historically, they have had a lot more options than the other classes, so the delta is easier to see.Many people played those types of classes for the variety. Spells are cool.Not anymore. Now they are repetitive.Now, these classes do not have 50% variety as your chart implies. They have a tiny small amount of variety. They are lucky if 10% of the prayers or spells they cast over the lifetime of the PC are Utility non-damaging spells.</blockquote>

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