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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4514228" data-attributes="member: 2011">Yup. You can trick them (or push them) in 3E. You push them in in 4E. The former is creative. The latter is mundane. Thanks for proving my point.You totally missed the point of his question.It was not, &quot;How can we sorta kinda maybe do something in 4E that gives us a similar end result to creative spells in 3E?&quot;.The real question here is:How many creative things could we do in 3E that we cannot do in 4E versus how many creative things can we do in 4E that we could do in 3E?In 4E, the wall spell is just a wall. In 3E, the illusion is a wall or a floor or a table or a wide variety of other interesting and creative objects. And oh yes, we still have the wall spells as well in 3E.There are so few spells per PC caster in 4E that by definition, it loses big time on the creativity and PC options meters to 3E. Yes, quite a few spells in 4E do damage and do something else. That does not creates skads of creativity options. It creates a small handful of the same ways to be creative. Over and over and over again, combat after combat after combat. Oh, I push him down. Oh, I create difficult terrain. Oh, I daze him. zzzzzzzz</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 4514228, member: 2011"] Yup. You can trick them (or push them) in 3E. You push them in in 4E. The former is creative. The latter is mundane. Thanks for proving my point. You totally missed the point of his question. It was not, "How can we sorta kinda maybe do something in 4E that gives us a similar end result to creative spells in 3E?". The real question here is: How many creative things could we do in 3E that we cannot do in 4E versus how many creative things can we do in 4E that we could do in 3E? In 4E, the wall spell is just a wall. In 3E, the illusion is a wall or a floor or a table or a wide variety of other interesting and creative objects. And oh yes, we still have the wall spells as well in 3E. There are so few spells per PC caster in 4E that by definition, it loses big time on the creativity and PC options meters to 3E. Yes, quite a few spells in 4E do damage and do something else. That does not creates skads of creativity options. It creates a small handful of the same ways to be creative. Over and over and over again, combat after combat after combat. Oh, I push him down. Oh, I create difficult terrain. Oh, I daze him. zzzzzzzz [/QUOTE]

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