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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4514307" data-attributes="member: 63763">I'm sorry, but finding a way to make a spell more powerful than it was meant to be may be creative, but is also something that quite a few people frown upon, and one of the things that varies from group to group. Some DMs are permissive, other groups agree not to try to parse rules to come up with ways to make lower level spells equivalent to [if not better than] higher level spells. Your definition of creative in this case is "make the opponent blind while I'm not". It's still a pretty obvious use of the power, just a creative way to make it more effectively do the thing it already does anyway. There are just as creative ways to cast certain area effects. While 4e may no longer allow you to be precise beyond 'squares' in terms of targetting, nor is a medium creature more than 1 square tall ... the "cubic" nature of spells and spaces means that you could, for example, cast a spell high enough in the air to hit flying creatures and large or bigger creatures without hitting your own friends below. You can similarly attack characters on different levels [depending on the range]. Levitation [or flight] can allow you to use close burst/blast powers to attack foes directly below you.  I'll get right on that ... and wait with baited breath as you dismiss anything I deem creative as being "obvious" because it helps to win a fight [although, a creative use of a spell, in combat, that doesn't help to win the fight isn't creative, it's bad]. Wall of Fog: It's a utility power. Being inside you are concealed to both sides. Either side and you can't be seen on the other side. Enter the rogue and the warlock. They go to the side without the opponent. They are now hidden from view. They go back over to the other side and, in the case of the warlock, they can remain hidden using his concealment. The rogue can deft strike his way and get his combat advantage on someone on the other side of the wall. Heck, charging through the wall lets you also catch someone off guard.  Area effects -> Great way to find out where hidden/invisible characters are hiding. Invisibility provides a concealment bonus. Blasts and bursts ... ignore concealment. It's just as easy to hit an invisible creature with an AoE than if they were visible. And, the bigger the area, the less accurate you have to be on guessing where it is. The wizard using his area effects, not as minion killing or damage to lots of people can instead use it to play Marco Polo with a hidden monster.  Boxing opponent's in with areas and walls can supplement the other allies in the party greatly. You don't need to be pushing people into wells or flanks for this to be the case. They may be given no good places to stand or move. It may be possible to get them prone and unable to get up [at least without going somewhere bad]. You might force larger monsters to squeeze, provoke OAs, invoke the marks of defenders, etc, etc, etc.   Scrying was specifically nerfed because of it's ability to disrupt DM plans if they weren't EXTREMELY paranoid or EXTREMELY creative. There is good old perception. There is invisibilty. The rogue has some great utility stealth based powers that let's it move very well. Heck, the warlock's built in ability to be constantly concealed as long as he keeps moving that, as long as he can keep making stealth checks, he can effectively remain hidden in plain sight for a while [as long as he starts completely hidden, he only needs his natural concealment, and succesful stealth checks, to remain hidden]. There are still some rituals and magic items than can help in eavesdroping.   Mounts. Ultimately, if the group needs to be flying for 10 miles ... it's either high level, or they are attempting to avoid something they probably shouldn't have the ability to avoid at that tier.  Phantom Steed, a 6th level ritual. On a high enough arcana check [40+] you have up to 8 mounts, all have speed 20, and the ability to fly up to 50 feet in the air] and they last for 12 hours. Assuming you travel for 10 hours ... that's 100 miles. So, you'd get 10 miles in ONE hour on the phantom steeds. So that is one example, right out of the wizards spellbook, and assuming that you MUST fly for 10 miles [and ignores "creative solutions" for finding other ways to get where you need to go].   Than wait for the car mechanic class. Also, for more difficult job, they bring in a number of specialists, each person being very good at their job. I'd rather have a heart surgeon work on my heart than a general practitioner.   Your presumption here is that the only way to be creative is a ton of spells that do specific things. So using the fly spell to make the group fly is creative? Some of the things you are complaining to have lost are powers that were very "exact solution to exact problem" effects. And then there are some like knock that are "a spell that does the same thing people can do without needing a spell".  Having a spell that is equivalent mechanically to the rogue picking the lock doesn't really have anything to do with being creative. The rogue could just as creatively pick a lock using his ability to pick locks as you can creatively cast knock to ... pick a lock.</blockquote>

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